I am fairly convinced that Dean will either try to kill Sam or actually kill him. I think that the souls not being able to get into heaven will play into all of this. Like Sam being able to come back because he's stuck outside of heaven and willing to come back, no matter how willing he is to die, in order to save Dean. Basically I can't see anything other than killing Sam getting through to Dean. As you said, he doesn't CARE if he blows up the world. It also may be why the writers had Sam stressing his willingness to die instead of talking about the consent issues, so Dean can use it as an excuse to kill Sam "for his own good". Now, Sam also went with being willing to die because I don't think he knows how to talk about the consent issues. Dean has been running roughshod over Sam for so long. So Sam focused on the first consequence of being possessed, the fact that Dean did it now when Sam wanted to live at all costs, but when he was willing to die. It's ironic and sad that the only times I think Sam has been wanted to live was
( ... )
I'm not sure he'll actually make a run at Sam, but I do think that his own attitude toward Sam is starting to scare him, as well it should.
It also may be why the writers had Sam stressing his willingness to die instead of talking about the consent issues, so Dean can use it as an excuse to kill Sam "for his own good"
Dean's never taken Sam's actual wishes into consideration before, though? It's Sam's desire to live that he's always resented and opposed. If Sam does keep really healing and start enjoying life again, that's a different story.
Dean will do literally anything to keep Sam alive
Anything except allow Sam access to a substance Dean doesn't approve of, or refrain from fucking around with Death in order to make Sam feel the right feelings at him. But I take your point.
after spending time with Dean, all Sam wants to do is die
I was a little put off when Josie was IN LOVE!!!! with Henry?
Oh, YES. I'd been meaning to mention it in my own review, but forgot. I mean, totally unnecessary, right?
Openly saying you don’t care if you tear shit up to get what you want is a different proposition from accurately perceiving that there are no good consequences to action or inaction (as per Cas in S6) or being actively misled for years on end about the likely consequences of your choices (as with Sam). Getting off on being able to kill things more effectively is quite different than honing a skill that you use to protect people. &c, &c. Dean has spent so long projecting rather than paying attention that he has a massively distorted picture of what he’s reacting to, and now emulating.
YEP. Like. The connections are there? But to call this, I can't think of a better word than mottaya, "Dean's demon blood arc" is a bit much.
SO unnecessary, and it felt a little strange because it was so close to being another thematic echo? But I've missed stuff before, maybe it'll turn out to make more sense than I'm seeing.
to call this, I can't think of a better word than mottaya, "Dean's demon blood arc" is a bit much.
Like, I do think there's a pretty solid chance that's how the characters will end up thinking of it, but I think the differences are consistent enough that viewers should be able to tell the difference.
I loved that Sam was his intelligent, capable self in this episode and worked the case alone. Loved the cell phone trick. I'm hoping that since he was able to handle this on his own, it will help his self confidence.
Loved every bit of Crowley playing Dean. I think Dean thinks he's in charge here and hasn't yet realized just how badly he is being manipulated. He needs to understand how addicting power is. He bitched at Sam about the demon blood addiction yet willingly took on the Mark of Cain. I really want it to bite him, big time. I don't want him to kill Sam but I'm thinking maybe someone else he calls family. Too bad Bobby's not still alive. That would have been awesome. I know, I'm weird. Maybe some character from his past that we have yet to meet.
I'm hoping that since he was able to handle this on his own, it will help his self confidence.
Me too. On reflection, I kind of think it's possible that he was so capable in the case at least in part because he was alone? Or at least, not in the toxic brother context. There's such a long pattern of Dean at best giving away how dependent he is on feeling like the savior big brother, and often actively undermining Sam. That kind of thing gets under people's skins and chips away not just at confidence but actual performance.
I don't actually know that I buy Crowley's addiction framework? Crowley has a lot of good reasons to try to sell Dean on that - he wants Dean to feel helpless against the thrall of the Mark, and to make Dean as accommodating as possible of his own habit - but IDK, Dean being bloodthirsty and obsessing about the job to avoid his personal shortcomings isn't, like, a radical change in behavior.
I don't want him to kill Sam but I'm thinking maybe someone else he calls familyI hadn't thought of that but OMG, STAY IN OZ
( ... )
Sam decided he wanted to venture out of the bunker, he worked closely with other people and had people be nice to him for once, he used his own inner resources to solve the case (both in terms of hearing his voice on the phone and remembering his experience of soullessness), he got to be a restorative force for other people when he returns the souls and gives Julia (?) a chance to confess and be absolved. <3
This so much! Recently I saw the S1 plane episode. Sam was the level-headed one who kept it together, first exorcising the co-pilot and then exorcising the PLANE when it was plunging downwards, paper scattering everywhere, Dean freaking out--and Sam kept going. Then the guy on the ground was "thanks, boys" because their dad had once done him a solid. It was so simpleI've enjoyed when the brothers become separated because Sam is so much more clear-headed and not being completely plunged in Carrying The Burden That Is Dean. He does so much better without his brother these days
( ... )
I've enjoyed when the brothers become separated because Sam is so much more clear-headed and not being completely plunged in Carrying The Burden That Is Dean. He does so much better without his brother these days.
Constantly sucking up all of Dean's frustrations and putting on an unflagging show of ~appreciating Dean's brotherly love~ takes a toll on his hunting game, WHO'D HAVE GUESSED?
Dean was the one who told Cain to skip the fine print.
Oh, Dean definitely has some accountability for this, but "you're going to have a hard time controlling yourself" doesn't take any more time to say than "with the Mark comes a great burden," or whatever it was that Cain did spit out, which, as he seems quite aware, is catnip to Dean. It's the same game Crowley got him through the door with, the oooooh-so-scary implicit challenge to Dean's manhood. Dean is definitely being an asshole, but not-nice people can be messed with, too.
Dean has basically been a killing machine for years. He said Purgatory felt "pure" for that reason. Kill or be killed
( ... )
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It also may be why the writers had Sam stressing his willingness to die instead of talking about the consent issues, so Dean can use it as an excuse to kill Sam "for his own good"
Dean's never taken Sam's actual wishes into consideration before, though? It's Sam's desire to live that he's always resented and opposed. If Sam does keep really healing and start enjoying life again, that's a different story.
Dean will do literally anything to keep Sam alive
Anything except allow Sam access to a substance Dean doesn't approve of, or refrain from fucking around with Death in order to make Sam feel the right feelings at him. But I take your point.
after spending time with Dean, all Sam wants to do is die
Sounds about right.
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Oh, YES. I'd been meaning to mention it in my own review, but forgot. I mean, totally unnecessary, right?
Openly saying you don’t care if you tear shit up to get what you want is a different proposition from accurately perceiving that there are no good consequences to action or inaction (as per Cas in S6) or being actively misled for years on end about the likely consequences of your choices (as with Sam). Getting off on being able to kill things more effectively is quite different than honing a skill that you use to protect people. &c, &c. Dean has spent so long projecting rather than paying attention that he has a massively distorted picture of what he’s reacting to, and now emulating.
YEP. Like. The connections are there? But to call this, I can't think of a better word than mottaya, "Dean's demon blood arc" is a bit much.
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to call this, I can't think of a better word than mottaya, "Dean's demon blood arc" is a bit much.
Like, I do think there's a pretty solid chance that's how the characters will end up thinking of it, but I think the differences are consistent enough that viewers should be able to tell the difference.
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I'm hoping that since he was able to handle this on his own, it will help his self confidence.
Loved every bit of Crowley playing Dean. I think Dean thinks he's in charge here and hasn't yet realized just how badly he is being manipulated. He needs to understand how addicting power is. He bitched at Sam about the demon blood addiction yet willingly took on the Mark of Cain. I really want it to bite him, big time. I don't want him to kill Sam but I'm thinking maybe someone else he calls family. Too bad Bobby's not still alive. That would have been awesome. I know, I'm weird. Maybe some character from his past that we have yet to meet.
Reply
Me too. On reflection, I kind of think it's possible that he was so capable in the case at least in part because he was alone? Or at least, not in the toxic brother context. There's such a long pattern of Dean at best giving away how dependent he is on feeling like the savior big brother, and often actively undermining Sam. That kind of thing gets under people's skins and chips away not just at confidence but actual performance.
I don't actually know that I buy Crowley's addiction framework? Crowley has a lot of good reasons to try to sell Dean on that - he wants Dean to feel helpless against the thrall of the Mark, and to make Dean as accommodating as possible of his own habit - but IDK, Dean being bloodthirsty and obsessing about the job to avoid his personal shortcomings isn't, like, a radical change in behavior.
I don't want him to kill Sam but I'm thinking maybe someone else he calls familyI hadn't thought of that but OMG, STAY IN OZ ( ... )
Reply
This so much! Recently I saw the S1 plane episode. Sam was the level-headed one who kept it together, first exorcising the co-pilot and then exorcising the PLANE when it was plunging downwards, paper scattering everywhere, Dean freaking out--and Sam kept going. Then the guy on the ground was "thanks, boys" because their dad had once done him a solid. It was so simpleI've enjoyed when the brothers become separated because Sam is so much more clear-headed and not being completely plunged in Carrying The Burden That Is Dean. He does so much better without his brother these days ( ... )
Reply
Constantly sucking up all of Dean's frustrations and putting on an unflagging show of ~appreciating Dean's brotherly love~ takes a toll on his hunting game, WHO'D HAVE GUESSED?
Dean was the one who told Cain to skip the fine print.
Oh, Dean definitely has some accountability for this, but "you're going to have a hard time controlling yourself" doesn't take any more time to say than "with the Mark comes a great burden," or whatever it was that Cain did spit out, which, as he seems quite aware, is catnip to Dean. It's the same game Crowley got him through the door with, the oooooh-so-scary implicit challenge to Dean's manhood. Dean is definitely being an asshole, but not-nice people can be messed with, too.
Dean has basically been a killing machine for years. He said Purgatory felt "pure" for that reason. Kill or be killed ( ... )
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