TVD review - stand by me

[pocochina]

So for a TVD episode, very little actually happened here. Some traveling, some exposition - nothing really happens until the last scene.

And yet.

AND YET.

I think it was one of the best episodes of the show. Possibly the best episode. I mean. Can we talk about how much I loved an episode that featured neither Tyler nor Klaus? Oh, we can't?

Comments

[upupa_epops]

I'm not sure if this is the best episode ever (I have two other strong favorites, and I just can't decide!), but definitely one of the best.

So, counterargument: "It hurts just make it stop" is explicit consent, getting hacked off and equating this scene with compulsion is about as impressive to me as someone watching House MD and crying about Chase stabbing the patient.Yeah, this is what I have trouble understanding in fandom's reaction. Obviously the whole scene is complicated, and there's no clear-cut answer. The thing is, this entire season is structured on conflicts that don't have any good solutions, moral dilemmas with ONLY bad options in store. TVD has never been about heroes, and now they're taking it even further. And we won't get a clear commentary saying: "This was right", "That was wrong" because those problems simply can't be boiled down to such simple answers. What Damon does is an act of helplessness, an act of power, an act of kindness, an act of fear, an act of weakness, an act of submission -- all at once

[pocochina]

I have a small handful of episodes that I think are really fantastic, mostly season and mid-season finales. But I tilt slightly in favor of saying this one wins the prize for the way it broke the show's convention of having a bazillion exciting things happen with A CAST OF THOUSANDS in play, and it still had me absolutely riveted.

I am sure of this: those two shots of Elena getting to sit and think - the one around the table, when everyone else fighting about the Other Side blurs together for her, and especially the second one after Damon says to turn it off - are definitely my favorite moments of the show so far. Nina Dobrev doesn't even need to move or speak in order to tell you exactly what her character is thinking, and that talent was put to exactly the right use here. It's been two weeks now and I'm still not over it.

Obviously the whole scene is complicated, and there's no clear-cut answer. The thing is, this entire season is structured on conflicts that don't have any good solutions, moral dilemmas with ONLY bad options in

[upupa_epops]

I'm yet to get over 2x01 and 4x06, and 4x15 is certainly close to those two on my list.

Agreed on Nina's performance. She was absolutely stunning, and the rest of the cast also did a great job. Personally, I was actually most impressed by Ian? I knew Nina would be incredible, I was prepared to watch solid 40 minutes of Nina being absolutely stunning (and this is exactly what happened), and I didn't give anyone else a single thought. And then I got (as predicted) slayed by Elena's "Where is your science?" and (unexpectedly) by Damon's "I can't show up without Bonnie". Show, you might have your problems, but you did casting WELL.

And the hollering about how this scene was JUST LIKE the non-consensual compulsion of Jeremy, or the time Klaus compelled Stefan as Stefan was begging him not to....makes me a lot more suspect of the motivations behind all this outrage.See, what I don't understand (and this is a genuine question, I really DO NOT understand, and I tried) is that... there wasn't that much outrage when Elena had Jeremy

[pocochina]

I'm yet to get over 2x01 and 4x06, and 4x15 is certainly close to those two on my list.

YES. And for all the popular Plec-snark, she wrote or co-wrote all three of these episodes of excellence, along with Masquerade and The Departed. We all know how I feel about the SHUT UP, WOMAN!!! attitude about her anyway, but looking at just what she's clearly credited for (never mind her contributions as a co-creator and showrunner), I think it's pretty clear that girfriend has some serious game.

I got (as predicted) slayed by Elena's "Where is your science?" and (unexpectedly) by Damon's "I can't show up without Bonnie".

omg, yes. And THAT SCENE on the porch with Stefan which was just perfect. I think I kind of take Damon for granted because he's just one of My Characters in that way. But I really agree. A lot of his stuff this season has been subtle in a way that I wouldn't have expected to associate with Damon, but it's happening beautifully.

See, what I don't understand (and this is a genuine question, I really DO NOT understand, and I

[pocochina]

blargh. Talk about missing the point. I think there's something really interesting the show did, particularly by situating it just after Damon himself sees right through Bonnie's brainwashing by Silas, in showing a power differential where that even can happen as being really disturbing and suspect. But that doesn't mean it was definitely, totally, that Damon "stole" Elena's humanity, as I've been seeing around.

I think this is what's tripping up fandom? People are starting from the default assumption of, "Well *if* Elena wanted her switch turned off, then she could have done it herself, so she *would* have done it herself."I don't really agree with that either, obviously, but I think that particular argument cuts both ways - if Damon intended to abuse the sire bond to reshape her mind he would have done it weeks ago, and if he were planning to take advantage of Jeremy's death to mess with her he wouldn't have put himself on the line the way he did to get Bonnie so she could try to undo it. That is how the world works - sometimes

[text_life]

The lesson to be learned from this is that fandom is predictably sucktastic and should be avoided as much as possible. LOL.

When I read references to what the rest of fandom is doing, it makes me really happy that 99% of my interaction with TVD fandom is reading (and occasionally commenting on) pocochina's, upupa_epops's and your posts on the matter.

[bitterlimetwist]

I usually don't comment on your TVD posts because between it and SPN, that would be a lot of me (although I am delightful, so. /lol), and YES I AGREE 100% makes for pretty boring conversations. Also, I'm generally just pretty flaily about the episodes and have trouble forming coherent thoughts.

But I wanted to tell you - YES to everything; I love this post like cake; I love your brain on this show.

(I'm so excited for the episode tonight! It looks like so much fun.)

[pocochina]

lol, I never tire of your opinions! or people agreeing with me! <333

I'm so pleased with this season as a whole. I think it found the right balance between the soapy plot-twist-based S1 storytelling, the character-arc-driven S2, and the more thematically ambitious S3. The one thing that might not be helping so much is that there are just so many balls in the air, and even that's about to be adjusted for the better with the plan to move a handful of characters to the spinoff.

[text_life]

"It hurts just make it stop" is explicit consent...Elena clearly knows what is up with the supernatural world, she understood that she was asking to have her mind altered by someone she knew was capable of doing it, and she expressly asked them to "make it stop." I'm so squicked out by the implication that they all should have stood around and said, no, little lady, WE think what you REALLY want is to be miserable, you HAVE TO sit there and be incapacitated by your own grief because WE THINK you have to feel your own feelings just to prove that you can. It's Elena's life, she's allowed to use any and every tool at her disposal to make it bearable for herself. Thank you for so articulately stating what I struggled to put into words. This scene did not make me cry 'mind rape!' or 'agency fail!' and for the longest time I thought I was Doing Fandom Wrong because this didn't squick me. Instead, the thought that her friends and lover should deny her clearly expressed call for help because they should know what's best made me uncomfortable

[pocochina]

ugh, thank you. This is why I ultimately decided to post, because I didn't see any challenge to the wailing and rending of garments which started to feel like the Race to Be the Most Outraged and Least "Problematic~!!!!11" and it is my position that someone granting consent should be part of the conversation presuming to be about, you know, consent.