I think you're right. The Originals have been getting in the way of the core ensemble. It's amazing how revived and tight all the dynamics felt tonight.
I was distracted during the Forwood scene, so lacking in complex reaction on my part. But I love your read that Caroline's feeling reluctant was veiling their own issues. Well done, show.
Haha, I cannot seem to get to a place where I enjoy dickish Stefan. Whereas your entire final paragraph about why Damon is a tool makes my heart SING.
I cannot seem to get to a place where I enjoy dickish Stefan. Whereas your entire final paragraph about why Damon is a tool makes my heart SING.
it's just. I LOVE how long this has been set up for. We knew EXACTLY how the Salvatores' reactions would play out, because it's EXACTLY what happened with Vicki. Which is why dick-Stefan isn't a problem for me? Because that's the foundation for my understanding of the character anyway. It's just not even debatable anymore, and so I can engage much more easily.
So, I kinda equate this to how I feel about Angel. I can see Angel is messed up and at times really appreciate how amazingly characterized he is, even outright sympathizing. But when he's messed up and hurting characters I love? I cannot. When you get to the end of s5 and all the humans are dead or dying...
So Stefan being dickish with Elena when she's going through more trauma? It pushes all my protective buttons because honestly, I'm most emotionally engaged with Elena, so my reactions while watching are just staaaahp making it woooorse, stefan.
I need Klaus to come back so that Stefan can redirect his dickishness at his husband. Well, I guess he was already doing that with Damon, tho. Mostly, I want to put Stefan in emotional quarantine and hand him a foam-covered bat.
I can see Angel is messed up and at times really appreciate how amazingly characterized he is, even outright sympathizing. But when he's messed up and hurting characters I love? I cannot.
I can see that, for sure, to the point where I'm not sure why I have such a different reaction to the two characters. I think it's a protagonist privilege thing. I rarely feel like I'm supposed to grant him status or latitude for his MAN PAIN. He's deeply sinned against and constantly sinning, and is always (hypothetically) subject to accountability from other characters. Which, maybe that's why the character really pops around Klaus? Because Stefan is so clearly the disempowered party in that dynamic, there's no question of it becoming a big macho sulk-off.
I think Caroline forgave him completely a long time ago but I feel like Tyler has always sort of wanted to prove that to her? That he won't ever fail her like that again?
OH MAN I hadn't even thought of that. I felt very much like this was just generally taking the situation with Klaus, where he was coerced and boxed into a corner and so scared he would lose himself in his abuser, you know? And he didn't and so he's a freaking superhero survivor. (I feel like I'm going to be updating my werewolf meta shortly to include the new hybrid mythology because OH TY.) Volunteering to take one for the team is to have the confidence in yourself and the trust from your team that IT'S COOL, HE'S GOT THIS. Tyler's never had that confidence and agency, I'm sure of it. He was just DARING Connor to come at him.
as usual I'm sort of uncomfortable with this binary logic in fandom where apparently if you think one Salvatore is a dick the other has to be The One Who Is Good For Elena and I usually disagree, hehHA. Yeah. I don't have any real attachment
( ... )
U know how I feel about tht last scene. I think the originals not being there added a lot. I'm not saying I dnt like the originals cuz man I love them but it wasa. Good different without them. Damon and alaric!!!
THIS POST IS ALL I WANT FROM LIFE. I mean, uh, I AGREE WITH ALL THINGS. I think your Caroline/Tyler analysis was most interesting because it completely different spin on a scene that I thought didn't particularly have any ~reason behind it. But I think your take makes a LOT of sense and the scene read that way is just brilliant.
I DO NOT LIKE CONNOR THO, HE SCARES ME. But I think he might grow on me if he stopped shooting people I love D: I think the Salvabros were fabulous this episode, as they weren't in the last because there was such a marked shift in dynamic. Stefan was a dick throughout and very obviously so, but he also had the genuine moments where he really IS trying to make Elena feel better, especially with the lanterns which are theatrical in the extreme, but he knows it means something and he does so unselfishly. But he also simultaneously projects his issues onto Elena AND Damon and steps back and does the nice guy thing. THAT CHARACTERIZATION THO, WELL DONE SHOW
( ... )
C/T are great because they're very easy to read as kind of a light breath of fresh air, but if you do look for something more complicated, you're not necessarily going to find those ugly power dynamics that mean the relationship HAS TO be bad. The scene works perfectly well if you watch it without it meaning anything? I think that's a fair interpretation. But my take that it is more psychologically resonant than that *doesn't* mean that the lighter interpretation is disguising abusive or co-dependent dynamics. It just means they've been through some stuff even if neither of them is any kind of bad guy.
Stefan was a dick throughout and very obviously so, but he also had the genuine moments where he really IS trying to make Elena feel better, especially with the lanterns which are theatrical in the extreme, but he knows it means something and he does so unselfishly. But he also simultaneously projects his issues onto Elena AND Damon and steps back and does the nice guy thingYES. Stefan was perfectly characterized in this episode, and
( ... )
I love scenes that are about how well those girls know each other. I don't need for it to be all SISTERS 5EVA and sunshine and roses or whatever. But they matter a lot to each other and can be such huge influences on each other's lives.
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I was distracted during the Forwood scene, so lacking in complex reaction on my part. But I love your read that Caroline's feeling reluctant was veiling their own issues. Well done, show.
Haha, I cannot seem to get to a place where I enjoy dickish Stefan. Whereas your entire final paragraph about why Damon is a tool makes my heart SING.
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it's just. I LOVE how long this has been set up for. We knew EXACTLY how the Salvatores' reactions would play out, because it's EXACTLY what happened with Vicki. Which is why dick-Stefan isn't a problem for me? Because that's the foundation for my understanding of the character anyway. It's just not even debatable anymore, and so I can engage much more easily.
Reply
So Stefan being dickish with Elena when she's going through more trauma? It pushes all my protective buttons because honestly, I'm most emotionally engaged with Elena, so my reactions while watching are just staaaahp making it woooorse, stefan.
I need Klaus to come back so that Stefan can redirect his dickishness at his husband. Well, I guess he was already doing that with Damon, tho. Mostly, I want to put Stefan in emotional quarantine and hand him a foam-covered bat.
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I can see that, for sure, to the point where I'm not sure why I have such a different reaction to the two characters. I think it's a protagonist privilege thing. I rarely feel like I'm supposed to grant him status or latitude for his MAN PAIN. He's deeply sinned against and constantly sinning, and is always (hypothetically) subject to accountability from other characters. Which, maybe that's why the character really pops around Klaus? Because Stefan is so clearly the disempowered party in that dynamic, there's no question of it becoming a big macho sulk-off.
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(The comment has been removed)
OH MAN I hadn't even thought of that. I felt very much like this was just generally taking the situation with Klaus, where he was coerced and boxed into a corner and so scared he would lose himself in his abuser, you know? And he didn't and so he's a freaking superhero survivor. (I feel like I'm going to be updating my werewolf meta shortly to include the new hybrid mythology because OH TY.) Volunteering to take one for the team is to have the confidence in yourself and the trust from your team that IT'S COOL, HE'S GOT THIS. Tyler's never had that confidence and agency, I'm sure of it. He was just DARING Connor to come at him.
as usual I'm sort of uncomfortable with this binary logic in fandom where apparently if you think one Salvatore is a dick the other has to be The One Who Is Good For Elena and I usually disagree, hehHA. Yeah. I don't have any real attachment ( ... )
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(The comment has been removed)
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I think the originals not being there added a lot. I'm not saying I dnt like the originals cuz man I love them but it wasa. Good different without them.
Damon and alaric!!!
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I DO NOT LIKE CONNOR THO, HE SCARES ME. But I think he might grow on me if he stopped shooting people I love D: I think the Salvabros were fabulous this episode, as they weren't in the last because there was such a marked shift in dynamic. Stefan was a dick throughout and very obviously so, but he also had the genuine moments where he really IS trying to make Elena feel better, especially with the lanterns which are theatrical in the extreme, but he knows it means something and he does so unselfishly. But he also simultaneously projects his issues onto Elena AND Damon and steps back and does the nice guy thing. THAT CHARACTERIZATION THO, WELL DONE SHOW ( ... )
Reply
Stefan was a dick throughout and very obviously so, but he also had the genuine moments where he really IS trying to make Elena feel better, especially with the lanterns which are theatrical in the extreme, but he knows it means something and he does so unselfishly. But he also simultaneously projects his issues onto Elena AND Damon and steps back and does the nice guy thingYES. Stefan was perfectly characterized in this episode, and ( ... )
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YES. This was so obvious in the one scene they had together. Stay with Caroline always, Elena.
I enjoyed Tyler stepping up to take one for the team.
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TYLER. <3
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