Dysfunctional Shipping Awareness can get way the fuck out of hand.

[pocochina]

I get these horrible delusions of coherence about Sam Winchester, so. Bear with me. Or don't, in which case, later. Spoilers through S4 in the post, but anything's fair game in comments. Warning for disturbing content and rampant favoritism. I do as I please.

Comments

[gateslacker]

Wow, that's way more coherent than my usual "oh, Sammy" and I agree. And I agree about Ruby, too. I think she cared for and maybe even loved Sam in her own weird, demon twisted way.

I love season 4 because of these interpersonal dynamics, which you can really appreciate on repeated viewing. It broke my heart but I was still pretty dang fascinated in the midst of all my sighing and chest clutching.

[pocochina]

"OH SAMMY" is always the correct reaction, IMO.

I think she cared for and maybe even loved Sam in her own weird, demon twisted way.

Yeah. I definitely don't think it's as simple as "that bitch came in and ripped!! them!! apart!!" but she knew exactly how to get in there and mess with him. But that was all tied up in the cruelty and exploitation that she convinced herself was totally All About And For Sam. Which of course he's more than used to.

I love season 4 because of these interpersonal dynamics, which you can really appreciate on repeated viewing.

so much this. It's far and away my favorite season of the show (so far, at least, though I don't see how they could top it!) because you can see all those machinations clicking away, and the characterization is strong enough that you understand exactly how and why they're falling for it.

[jacyevans]

Dude, I could write epics about my Ruby feelings and my issues with her characterization in S4, so I will just stick to agreeing with this: I think she loved him, as very best as she was able. And then flailing a whole lot, because YES. I think Ruby grew fond of Sam, probably more than she ever expected when Lilith sent her on this crazy charade, which was why she was so vehement in the end that he just trust her because Lucifer will save us and then we'll be okay.

...and now I'm just going to stare at that gif. A lot.

[pocochina]

RUBYYYYY.

which was why she was so vehement in the end that he just trust her because Lucifer will save us and then we'll be okay.

Exactly! I don't know at what point she forgot she was playing the role of Sam's fallen guardian angel and slipped into it for real.

Here, have another gif, because you will clearly appreciate the rich psychological symbolism, and stuff.

[jacyevans]

I don't know at what point she forgot she was playing the role of Sam's fallen guardian angel and slipped into it for real.

In my head canon, it was just after the whole "I remember being human" speech she gave Dean in S3. Because that was the point that there seemed to be a character shift, where as much as she was manipulative, she also seemed to have a twisted sort of fondness for both of them.

Or, you know, that could have all been in my head.

GUH, yes, I do appreciate the symbolism, but if I'm being totally honest, the demon blood drinking sub-plot is one of my least favorites of the series.

[pocochina]

but if I'm being totally honest, the demon blood drinking sub-plot is one of my least favorites of the series.

ooooh, interesting. Mind if I ask why? I've never thought to separate that out from Sam/Ruby and Sam-Lucifer generally.

Ruby and Sam go to the Apocalypse

[auroramama]

amonitrate's meta is wonderfully thorough -- and te even gets around to the goats for the Lord and for Azazel in the sixth essay! Perhaps because I've known about that for ages, though, it seems much more vivid and dichotomous to me. Dean is the righteous man, the hero, and therefore the sacrifice for the Lord; Sam is the exiled scapegoat, bringing his burden of the community's sins to Azazel

Re: Ruby and Sam go to the Apocalypse

[pocochina]

amonitrate is so painfully even-handed. I get three paragraphs into one of those posts and am all flapping around like "but! but! but! BAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!" in my ridiculously biased way. I'm glad that worked in favor of explaining my (horror at my) love for this ship, though.

we have only Ruby's word that she's the same demon.

SO TRUE. I choose to believe that she is, because I really like the backstory we get of her in S3, but yeah, there's no proof of that in the least.

Sometimes she obviously yearns to whack him with a blunt object, but in a spousal way. For a demon. She's stuck with him, with his blinkers and his temper and his mind-blowing stubbornness

HA. And for all she's using those traits against him, I can hardly blame her for the frustration.

rather than the amazing exercise in compassion and self-control (now rather dinged up) that is his committment to minimum violenceYES. It does some major goalpost-shifting. Because if this is him just being inherently "gentle," which is kind of passive- and laid-back-sounding, then that means

[ever_neutral]

his aversion to all that danger and violence is about how he's a pussy. I couldn't admire him more for being enough of a stubborn, idealistic bastard to fight back against that at every turn

Worrrrd.

However, I'm very unhappy about the twist, and the deprioritization of Ruby's motives falls into a very disturbing pattern in SPN as a whole to subsume female experiences into male POVs on that experience.

Yep, word again.

This is my favorite interpretation of the relationship: I think Ruby believes, in that twisted demon way, that every word she tells him is true, or at least, as true as she can afford to make it. I think she honest to you-know-who believes she's pushing Sam in the right direction. I think she's sure that he'll be okay with it, when she finally makes him understand. I think she was sure it was all for the best. I think she loved him, as very best as she was able.

SOBBING ME TOO

I have no intelligent additions. But I applaud the choice, obvs.

[pocochina]

I knew you would understand! And yeah. The simultaneous existence of Ruby haters and John apologists boggles the mind, that's for damn sure.

[rosaxx50]

Ironically the last episode I watched in context was the one where Ruby 2.0 shows up for the first time, so I have no idea about all the themes and backstory and powerplay there, but it fits perfectly with Ruby 1.0

Also, I shipped Ruby 2.0/Sam already from that one scene and your whole reasoning is flawless.

He follows her into the dark, even though he knows it means shedding parts of his own humanity.

You've sold me.

Some ships I ship right, okay. SHHHHHHH.

Lolol you'll have something for the last day of this month after all, then.

[pocochina]

!! Ruby 2.0 is magnificent. I like the blonde girl a lot too, but S4 is when shit gets awesome.

you'll have something for the last day of this month after all, then

hahaha. I WAS CONCERNED.