YES. And it's so frustrating, because we're shown this wonderfully complicated story about ethical use of reappropriated power and then told.....AND THAT'S TERRIBLE. noooo! wrong! boring! Why would we just walk away from the good stuff?! WHYYYYYY?
was because of the demon blood dependence and the side-effects of that dependence. Also, withdrawal looks like a terrifying and horrible experience with ACTUAL physical side-effects, and yes, it did leave him vulnerable to Ruby's manipulation.
Exactly. It's not that it sucks because it's evil. It sucks because it sucks for him, especially since he has no risk-management safety net. I know there's more of a spectrum than a distinction here, but throughout S4 he looked less like an addict to me and more to me like someone who was ineptly self-medicating for a chronic condition, for which the demon blood could also be a fantastic metaphor if it's read as being a little more morally neutral. So all the hectoring looks so cruel and foolish to me.
The reason Dean annoyed me in a lot of his post
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LOL - I thought of it right off the bat as a sort of addiction (after the last few times Ruby was late meeting up with him - in the beginning, I just didn't know what to think) because of the way it's presented in the show - the level of dependence, and the manner in which going without it seems pretty bad for his psyche, and the rationalizations but then again, I think the idea of "treating" a chronic condition is also pretty interesting a parallel. What comes to mind for me is the bioethics class I took last semester regarding people's reaction and the backlash for new innovations that may alter the body, and the continual use of the reason "not natural" for going against it when "natural" is an artificial delineation set by human society. I mean there are people who become dependent on the very substance they use to treat their chronic pain (morphine and other painkillers and steroids in particular come to mind - especially steroids, because that actually takes somewhat 'natural' substances contained within the body and enhances
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the level of dependence, and the manner in which going without it seems pretty bad for his psyche, and the rationalizations but then again, I think the idea of "treating" a chronic condition is also pretty interesting a parallel.
Yeah. I actually do like the way the self-medication/addiction line is really blurry with Sam, because...that is how it is for a lot of people. Someone who drinks to self-medicate for depression can still become dependent on alcohol.
I really like all of your thoughts on "natural" and "not-natural" in this context. There's this idea of trying to split off the one intrinsically "evil" thing that's "inside him" rather than...this is part of him and good or bad is what he does with it.
that was the one thing about the whole "lock-up Sam cold turkey idea" that really doesn't work for me even if it was addiction)UGH, YES. And the "withhold potentially life-saving treatment over Sam's expressed wishes because ew he nasty"....that's another thing that I'm not sure was drawn out properly? I don't quibble with it
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Ooooh - yes! In a way, Sam's own storyline with self-medication/addiction starts out in a very real way - now that I think more about it. He's trying to deal, to cope, and he tried to drink, but that didn't do the job, and in the end, Ruby is the one who offers him a - literal - "gateway" drug to "help" him without warning him of the other effects. Hmm... woah - I promised myself not to think too much about the show. ><" Uhmm... neveremind. Not that I really want to stop thinking. :P
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Sam's own storyline with self-medication/addiction starts out in a very real way - now that I think more about it. He's trying to deal, to cope, and he tried to drink, but that didn't do the job, and in the end, Ruby is the one who offers him a - literal - "gateway" drug to "help" him without warning him of the other effects.
Yeah, I think it's - aside from the psychic demon thing - incredibly realistic. Desperate people, even totally in their right minds, generally don't make rational decisions, because they weigh short and long term costs and benefits even worse than most of us do every day anyway. Even if Sam had known he would become dependent on the demon blood, I think he still would have gone for it, though he might have been a little more conscientious about not becoming dependent on Ruby specifically.
(I do kind of wonder how she broached the subject of blood-drinking for the first time? like, I doubt Sam was all "I guess we could get Taco Bell BUT YOU KNOW WHAT REALLY SOUNDS TASTY?")
Oh, man, please write me the scene where Ruby delicately introduces the notion that more demon blood, not just the couple of drops he got at six months, would be helpful
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HOUSE WHYYYYY. I thought his substance dependence was really thoughtfully handled in the first couple of seasons. And then it was freaking horrible for the following DECADE.
Especially with an opiate, where there's a physical withdrawal process that doesn't distinguish on the basis of legitimate use or otherwise?
UUUUGH THIS. I really, really hate the idea that unpleasant fallout is necessarily connected to WRONG WRONG WRONGNESS. Especially with the withdrawals, for exactly that reason. (Having several times over enjoyed the distinct pleasure of running out of much-needed, totally legitimate, non-hellspawn prescriptions...panic room Sam is not a stranger to me. The moralization about this really hits a nerve.)
I would have trouble blaming Sam even if the only thing he was addicted to was *being able to stop demons from taking his brother away ever again*. So the whole withdrawal thing... I kind of want to keep it separate.AGREED. It just felt like such a red herring? Like, the same story could have happened if the takeaway was "Sam
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(I do kind of wonder how she broached the subject of blood-drinking for the first time? like, I doubt Sam was all "I guess we could get Taco Bell BUT YOU KNOW WHAT REALLY SOUNDS TASTY?")Oh, Ruby and the blood drinking. I have my cut scene to explain how it started. In Heart we see Sam with Madison and IIR, he was a bit of a biter. In I Know How You Spent Last Summer, Sam and Ruby have very rough sex and then a short time later Sam goes to take out Lilith and save her little girl vessel. He loses a fight using the knife with the demons. Then Ruby comes in protects him, gets threatened by the demons and Sam exorcises the demons for the first time with his mind. Now, Sam was going to go into more detail about his night with Ruby, but Dean explicitly stops him. I always guessed that Sam did his biting thing and broke skin. Then he finds himself able to exorcise a demon. A few days or weeks later he suddenly can't do it again. He and Ruby try to figure out what was the difference and Ruby "realizes" that maybe it's the blood from
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was because of the demon blood dependence and the side-effects of that dependence. Also, withdrawal looks like a terrifying and horrible experience with ACTUAL physical side-effects, and yes, it did leave him vulnerable to Ruby's manipulation.
Exactly. It's not that it sucks because it's evil. It sucks because it sucks for him, especially since he has no risk-management safety net. I know there's more of a spectrum than a distinction here, but throughout S4 he looked less like an addict to me and more to me like someone who was ineptly self-medicating for a chronic condition, for which the demon blood could also be a fantastic metaphor if it's read as being a little more morally neutral. So all the hectoring looks so cruel and foolish to me.
The reason Dean annoyed me in a lot of his post ( ... )
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Yeah. I actually do like the way the self-medication/addiction line is really blurry with Sam, because...that is how it is for a lot of people. Someone who drinks to self-medicate for depression can still become dependent on alcohol.
I really like all of your thoughts on "natural" and "not-natural" in this context. There's this idea of trying to split off the one intrinsically "evil" thing that's "inside him" rather than...this is part of him and good or bad is what he does with it.
that was the one thing about the whole "lock-up Sam cold turkey idea" that really doesn't work for me even if it was addiction)UGH, YES. And the "withhold potentially life-saving treatment over Sam's expressed wishes because ew he nasty"....that's another thing that I'm not sure was drawn out properly? I don't quibble with it ( ... )
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Yeah, I think it's - aside from the psychic demon thing - incredibly realistic. Desperate people, even totally in their right minds, generally don't make rational decisions, because they weigh short and long term costs and benefits even worse than most of us do every day anyway. Even if Sam had known he would become dependent on the demon blood, I think he still would have gone for it, though he might have been a little more conscientious about not becoming dependent on Ruby specifically.
(I do kind of wonder how she broached the subject of blood-drinking for the first time? like, I doubt Sam was all "I guess we could get Taco Bell BUT YOU KNOW WHAT REALLY SOUNDS TASTY?")
it's interesting that episode ( ... )
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Especially with an opiate, where there's a physical withdrawal process that doesn't distinguish on the basis of legitimate use or otherwise?
UUUUGH THIS. I really, really hate the idea that unpleasant fallout is necessarily connected to WRONG WRONG WRONGNESS. Especially with the withdrawals, for exactly that reason. (Having several times over enjoyed the distinct pleasure of running out of much-needed, totally legitimate, non-hellspawn prescriptions...panic room Sam is not a stranger to me. The moralization about this really hits a nerve.)
I would have trouble blaming Sam even if the only thing he was addicted to was *being able to stop demons from taking his brother away ever again*. So the whole withdrawal thing... I kind of want to keep it separate.AGREED. It just felt like such a red herring? Like, the same story could have happened if the takeaway was "Sam ( ... )
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