LAST Boobs Update of the Day

[pnkrokhockeymom]

I want to clarify/evolve/change a couple of different things (I'm participating in an ongoing discussion, and my thoughts are changing, and I want to be very clear):

So, first--my reactions were totally based on the original post and the first explanation.  I have new information now.   New information should always be accommodated into a theory,

Comments

[splash_the_cat]

I do wonder if there is a way to expand the idea of shame-free touching and affirmative female control and consent by taking into account some of the criticisms and creating a version 2.0, with a different nameAs I said elsewhere, change the name (or at least COMPLETELY REMOVE the gendered aspect), hold it in a specifically created and limited physical space that is open and bright and with plenty of room for people to move and make their own safe spaces within it, clearly explain the project in writing, and post that prominently outside the venue, post clearly defined rules and expectations and make everyone reads them and agrees to them before entering the space. Those rules and the description should clearly acknowledge and emphasize "affirmative female control and consent." Done like this, the whole idea could not only be a safe and comfortable space for women to explore, but also serve as a discussion starter for the very issues and language choices that have caused this whole situation to hit so many people's triggers as hard

[pnkrokhockeymom]

I think that's excellent, ma'am. You win the imaginary internet cookie of the day.

[splash_the_cat]

yay cookie!

[buttwhale]

"But I don't really ascribe to the idea that I get to tell someone else they were co-opted or coerced if they don't feel that they were."I definitely understand what you are saying here, but I just thought I would point out that part of coercion is causing someone to do something involuntarily, but having them think they want to do it. I just think that a lot of people would like to think they do things because they want to, but most of the time we do things to 'fit in

[pnkrokhockeymom]

Thanks for posting such a thoughtful comment. I think maybe I wasn't clear about what I meant by that

[buttwhale]

I also should have clarified that I was speaking more in general and not just about the person you were referring to who gave her take on it from her own experience. There were probably at least a few people there like your friend Anne (at least I hope so) with a good head on her shoulders and sure of whatever decision was made.

"I don't think you're wrong or talking out your ass. But I think it's also possible and frequent (and I'm not accusing you of this, here, just more explaining my own statement) that feminists sometimes ALSO disempower women by denying their own explanation of their own experience. And I want to avoid that as well. That doesn't mean that there aren't antifeminist consequences, but I think it's possible to assess those without denying someone's direct and clear communication of her experience, simultaneously."

Definitely and thank you.