Heated atmosphere

[pjc50]

I have another half-formed thing to write, about loyalty and belonging. It would have been called "Loyalty: the most dangerous of the virtues", because I see it taking more and more of a role in people's conversation. Are you with us or against us? But the tone of online discussion has got a lot nastier just now

Comments

[rmc28]

I think that honestly answering each other's questions may be the only way we learn anything.

So. What questions do you want to ask me?

[pjc50]

As a Lib Dem loyalist, how do you feel?

(Question intentionally left vague. I've always assumed that your attachment to the party was down to your upbringing and your mother, rather than a contingent assessment of their manifesto like us floating voters. I've pulled my punches in the past about the party as a result)

[rmc28]

Immediate answer: tired

[pjc50]

I'm glad you can see the problems from the inside. And it's very wise to look after health and family first. I've long had to watch my own energy levels and husband them carefully. I can see how disappointed you are with the party.

As a counterpoint, what are you most optimistic about in the future?

[pjc50]

feel safe enough to not need like-minded people around you

I've long been surrounded by people like me (male geeks), sometimes to the extent of feeling sadly monocultural. Especially at work. That makes it a lot easier to take differences of opinion, even strongly held ones, as they're not differences (threats?) of identity. But I've also had times and opportunities enough to see outside the monoculture, which have been great influences on me.

[sesquipedality]

Your experience of geek monoculture and mine appear to differ quite considerably, which is odd given that they overlap somewhat. I remember quite vividly the experience of a room full of Cambridge geeks ganging up on someone (sometimes me, sometimes someone else) they disagreed with who didn't share their frame of reference.

You appear to assume in this post that unpopular opinions are something unusual. Nearly everyone has a few, and many people avoid voicing them because doing so requires emotional energy, and communication with people you disagree with is tricky. It seems to me that I'm always pissing people who I agree with off because I try to apply the same rigour to positions I agree with as I do to those I disagree with.

[pjc50]

I've definitely seen that as well. On a couple of occasions I've objected when someone else was clearly distressed by the process. Somehow it rarely got to me personally; I guess I felt comfortable with it as a kind of verbal sparring. The ridiculous controversies around the founding of the SRCF got a bit stronger, but I had a great ally there. I was also pleased to discover the Jesus college geeks were very different from the Chiark culture, which had a particularly aggressive attitude. I'm also talking about geek office culture in the years since, which is again less intense.

I agree that if you're not equipped to deal with that intensity of arguing, it's going to be very unpleasant. I don't think I appreciated that at the time.

[swaldman]

Heh. I have always admired the way you don't tend to comment on or RT things much, and when you do it is well-observed and insightful. I always assumed you were simply remaining "above it all", and not jumping on bandwagons, but maybe there's an element of avoiding controversy too... (which isn't a criticism from me)

Questions, questions. Ask away, if you like. I reserve the right to not answer.
Or, I may be dull enough not to deserve questioning :-P

[pjc50]

Thankyou :) That's definitely what I try to do; give a different angle from everyone else.

I didn't quite intend to interrogate my audience; what I had in mind was questions as a second move, in response to someone else's strongly stated opinion I disagree with. I have you down as "moderate environmentalist" or "bright green", is that how you see yourself politically?

[swaldman]

Heh. It's hardly an interrogation if people volunteer to be asked stuff

[uisgebeatha]

I have nothing insightful to say, other than 'condemn-athon' is going in my lexicon of Pointless Internet Debates with 'hatorade', 'scornflakes', 'oppression olympics', 'privsplaining' and 'Problematique: The New Fragrance For Guardian Readers'.

*mic drop, walks off stage*

[swaldman]

*snigger* at "condemn-athon"

It reminds me of an item on... that old R4 impressions comedy, which I can't remember the name of, where a number of "politicians" were asked to respond to a news story with the question,

"So, [story]. Just how appalled are you?"
and they all responded with different words before "appalled", each trying to outdo the last.

[uisgebeatha]

Ha!

P and I were discussing how everything gets a bit 'I for one am outraged at the fact that you are outraged at this outrage'. It's like some kind of concern carousel that never ends. Oh, the internet.

[crazyscot]

I prefer the quiet life
I can relate to that. I like rmc28's idea of asking and answering questions, so here goes: Is there anything you'd like to ask me?

[pjc50]

I hadn't thought of questions as an opener, more of a response, but: having changed countries and careers, do you feel more at home now? Might you go wandering further in the future?

[crazyscot]

The two facets of the question are pretty disjoint for me so I'll tackle them separately.

Having changed country, yes we love it here and are starting to feel at home. There are differences, there are social issues - subtly different to the UK - but there are also some incredible positives. We cannot foresee wanting to leave NZ, though might well move around within the country, especially once C and I have finished our courses and might need to follow the work.

The career change is a tough one because it's still so very early days. The course is hard work but I'm enjoying it; I'm approaching it with an open mind. There are many different roles within the industry and the course is great for letting me try out a lot of them. If it turns out not to work for me there are a few things I could try to fall back on, but I want to give it a fair go.