I'm not sure that some of the Remain people haven't been almost as obnoxious though. I keep wondering what the reaction would have been if it had been a Leave politician who had been shot (and I don't think that's an impossibility: I am not confident that everyone who I've seen sharing their desire to shoot Farage or Gove is genuinely just 'blowing off steam' and I don't believe that blowing off steam by threatening actual living people is OK).
Totally agreed. I think the Remain people have been less dangerous in an overall sense, but some of the reactions I've seen about Farage and Gove have been distinctly not ok.
I am very glad that nobody has shot a Leave politician, and I don't consider it impossible that someone as mentally unwell/deeply unpleasant as the person who shot Jo Cox could decide to do exactly that.
Re fiscal policy, I would need a better sense than I currently have of what policy decisions would be likely. I imagine that harmonisation across the EU would be beneficial all else being equal, but not if it was harmonised to terrible policy.
I'm in favour of parts of the TTIP proposals, so successfully negotiating them would make me more strongly in favour of Remain. Of the bits that I have concerns about, I think that the UK is probably more likely to agree to them than Brussels.
Free trade is generally good, and the ways in which it is enhanced by being a member of the EU is part of why I'm voting remain. Whilst remaining also imposes some restrictions, I don't they're either or both outweighed or likely to be continued internally even if we leave.
I'm sure there are non-obnoxious elements to the Leave side, but they're being overshadowed.
I feel I want to SEWIWEAIC, but I'm not sure I have the energy or the optismism. Would it make a difference what I said, especially since my answers would be "it would depend upon the details" for everything up to the Free Trade question. I think Free Trade is good under certain economic conditions which I'm not convinced the UK enjoys right now, but to which it ought to aspire - I'm not sure either Leave or Remain guarantee that.
I'll admit to finding a lot of prominent Leavers obnoxious and I strongly don't want Johnson as Prime Minister, though I would be cautiously optimistic if Gove got the job, but I think Gove is a bit of a long shot particularly since he gives every sign of not wanting the job (or at least not wanting to put himself forward for it). However, judging the person and not the argument is a large part of what is wrong with a lot of modern political discourse so I hope I'm not too strongly swayed by my dislike for a lot of them.
On the 'optimism' front, I still remember hearing during politics A level a thousand years ago, the great handwringing about how it was so hard now to engage the public with politics in any way, how reluctant they were to vote, to stand for office, to engage with their representatives.
I think we can safely say this is a problem we no longer have...
I think what really makes me depressed is that no matter who wins, the win will be attributable to playing fast and loose with the truth, appealing to people's worst emotions, and cheap Internet memes at the level of "Gove looks like a swivel eyed loon in this picture therefore you should vote Remain" and that means we will see more of the same in future and I can't believe that is good.
Greater engagement may be a good thing, but I feel at the moment its just greater engagement with some kind of celebrity mud-slinging match that would be farcical were it not so tragic.
My feeling is that the tone of the thing changed on Jo Cox's murder. Before that, yes, all very superficial, let us laugh at ugly unpopular Gove, make jibes about foolishnesses that David Cameron may or may not have committed as a student, let us wage surreal battle upon the Thames and talk about immigrants and refugees as if they could not actually hear us.
After though... It is a strange and amazing day when Mark's gin-mad aunty Jenny turns up on facebook to make a long post about sovereignty and economics. People keep posting things that I would not quite expect from them...
Perhaps I *am* chaotic neutral, but I am finding it all very fascinating, this process of watching a nation make up its mind deprived of all the usual filters of party politics.
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I am very glad that nobody has shot a Leave politician, and I don't consider it impossible that someone as mentally unwell/deeply unpleasant as the person who shot Jo Cox could decide to do exactly that.
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I endorse this comment.
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I'm in favour of parts of the TTIP proposals, so successfully negotiating them would make me more strongly in favour of Remain. Of the bits that I have concerns about, I think that the UK is probably more likely to agree to them than Brussels.
Free trade is generally good, and the ways in which it is enhanced by being a member of the EU is part of why I'm voting remain. Whilst remaining also imposes some restrictions, I don't they're either or both outweighed or likely to be continued internally even if we leave.
I'm sure there are non-obnoxious elements to the Leave side, but they're being overshadowed.
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I'll admit to finding a lot of prominent Leavers obnoxious and I strongly don't want Johnson as Prime Minister, though I would be cautiously optimistic if Gove got the job, but I think Gove is a bit of a long shot particularly since he gives every sign of not wanting the job (or at least not wanting to put himself forward for it). However, judging the person and not the argument is a large part of what is wrong with a lot of modern political discourse so I hope I'm not too strongly swayed by my dislike for a lot of them.
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I think we can safely say this is a problem we no longer have...
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I think what really makes me depressed is that no matter who wins, the win will be attributable to playing fast and loose with the truth, appealing to people's worst emotions, and cheap Internet memes at the level of "Gove looks like a swivel eyed loon in this picture therefore you should vote Remain" and that means we will see more of the same in future and I can't believe that is good.
Greater engagement may be a good thing, but I feel at the moment its just greater engagement with some kind of celebrity mud-slinging match that would be farcical were it not so tragic.
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After though... It is a strange and amazing day when Mark's gin-mad aunty Jenny turns up on facebook to make a long post about sovereignty and economics. People keep posting things that I would not quite expect from them...
Perhaps I *am* chaotic neutral, but I am finding it all very fascinating, this process of watching a nation make up its mind deprived of all the usual filters of party politics.
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