Evolution.

[phen0type]

I'm afraid that I'm about to go on a bit of a pedantic tear, but a rather interesting post by naamaire inspired me to do it. It has come to my attention that many people, particularly those who subscribe to Creationist models, seem to misunderstand completely how the theory of evolution works. Those more knowledgeable than I about evolutionary biology may

Comments

[jameela_rawdah]

Thanks Richard I just never understod Eveloution or I thought it might be "part" of the puzzle but nevr a absolue in my mind I think when your in a group you have to enbrace many theroies as plausable to explain how some are here and all. But I relly do enjot Intillectual Desighn stuff too cause well even SCientists are saying theres something Higher and a missing link so I try to blend them both Cause I think all cretures are always EVOLVING and that can be seen not just by cross breds in annimals but if you look at horses the dogs or Lions then kitty cats or Beavers then squrrels ya know and we are always developing in humaness but I just know for me a Higher power had something to do with creating from the beginning I enjoyed your post and it wil make me read more about ideas and schools of thought
*hugs* Astrid with soe bratz

[phen0type]

You're very welcome, all of you. I hope that it helped. *Smiles.*

[403]

By friendslocking the post, you seem to be preaching to the chior. Just saying. ;)

[phen0type]

I've changed the security so that those not on the Friends List may see it as well. It was written for the benefit of someone who is on the list, and I was planning on making it public, but I locked it out of habit.

[naamaire]

If no species ever gives birth to another species then all life on Earth must be the same species. Saying that it happens very slowly doesn't change the fact that speciation has occurred. You describe changes within members of species and say that explains speciation. It doesn't. Human beings have been breeding dogs for thousands of years and introduced great variation in the species, yet they are all dogs. All of Darwin's famous finches are the same species of finch. The gulls in your excerpt from Dawkins are all gulls-- the reason that the ones on the far ends don't breed is that they live too far apart

[403]

I'm not familiar with the evolutionary history of bats, but I wouldn't be surprised if the intermediate form was something like the flying squirrel or sugar glider. No need to travel by ground, when you can climb and glide.

Some species can interbreed, but the resulting offspring isn't capable of reproducing on its own. (See mules, and tiglons/ligers.) Rather circularly, that's how we define 'species' in the first place. At some point along the line, one subgroup or another becomes genetically incompatible with the rest.

[naamaire]

Actually, the flight mechanism of flying squirrels is completely different than that of bats-- bats wings are long fingers, essentially, while flying squirrels and sugar gliders use loose underarm skin. Morphologically, they structures are as different as a squid's tentacles and an elephant's trunk, despite similar uses.

And you bring up my original objection: "At some point along the line, one subgroup or another becomes genetically incompatible with the rest." If evolution occurs due to mutation, and mutation occurs to single individuals, with whom do these mutated individuals breed? Whether it happens fast or slow, somewhere along the line there must be one individual that is incapable of reproducing with its breeding group, so how are those genes transmitted? A random mutation cannot happen to a large group of individuals at once.

[phen0type]

None of these mutations are terribly large on their own, so they would certainly be able to transmit the more adaptive genes amongst each other.

[crystalseraph]

I like TalkOrigins, except that they don't recognise the Flat Earth Society as a joke. That makes them look quite bad xD

I'm sure people have pointed out that the FLS is a satire...

[azalynn]

It is?! I didn't know that, actually...

With all the crazy people on the Internet, it is sometimes very difficult to figure out what is satire and what is not. Case in point: these tinfoil hat folks seem to be serious!

[phen0type]

Yes, and I remember their doing the same thing with Objective:Ministries, too. I think that they are trying to address all the possible creationist arguments there may be, whether they come from satirical sources like the Flat Earth Society and Objective:Ministries, or 'legitimate' ones like Answers in Genesis and Kent Hovind.

And yes, there are quite a few organizations and people who believe such ridiculous things - David Icke comes to mind.

[phen0type]

It is taught at some schools, but not as rigorously as I'd like.