How To Define Irony -- "Islamofascism"

[peristaltor]

I started writing this in November, but faltered, and started again, and faltered again. I find the entire topic just too important to treat lightly, but too emotionally fraught to resort to the bludgeon of didactic accusation. Telling people "You're evil!" just gets you dismissed

Comments

[firstashore]

I know exactly what you mean. I've been brewing a rant against the term "Islamofascism" for months but as you said, it needs to be done in depth and I just didn't have the presence of mind to do it.

Anybody who did high school history should know the background of fascism, Mussolini's role in it and where the fasces fits in. Well, I don't know about US schools, but in other Western nations the history of 20th Century totalitarianism is most of 12th grade History.

But yeah. Thanks for that. It needed to be said and you saved me a lot of trouble. ;) I will link to it on my LJ if you don't mind.

We seem to have a pretty good synergy happening when it comes to these issues. Glad we bumped into each other!

[firstashore]

I was planning on this quote on my entry, but you can have it now:

Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. ...Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.

And with that quote from one of history's greatest Fascists you have US WoT foreign policy. Iraq and Osama, anyone?

[firstashore]

Err... that was supposed have "Hermann Goering" printed under it. :P

[peristaltor]

Hey, link away. I'm glad I wasn't completely incoherent.

The net is weird, unprecedented. I have no recollection now how I tripped upon your LJ. That is true for most of the folks I tag to read. Then again, how much more meaningful is a shared interest -- in, say, science -- than the fact that multiple sets of parents just happened to settle in the same neighborhood and enroll their children in the same school. Yet school connections are considered more legitimate as reasons for connection, while "met on the internet" still earns you a looks askance.

[sunfell]

When I was wandering around DC, the Roman imagery struck me as almost haunting in its displacement. The fascia, the eagles, the various instruments of Imperial rule...

Did you notice the Phrygian cap on the Senate seal? An interesting inclusion- it was a cap worn by freed slaves, and later used in the 18th and 19th centuries as a symbol of liberty.

Personally, I think that the term 'Islamic Domionionist' is probably a more accurate one, since they are doing the same things that Christian Dominionists are- turning governments into theocracies ruled by clerics and scripture and orders handed down by God.

[peristaltor]

Interesting bit about the cap!

And I agree wholeheartedly about "Islamic Dominionist." Sadly, as I noted, it would prove embarrassing for a bunch of Christian Dominionists to use the term without any sense of irony. . . which, again, is why I feel this whole "fascist" kerfuffle exists.

[ironphoenix]

Excellent post; linking.

Re. Luntz, have you read Neal Stephenson and J. Frederick George's novel Interface? If not, get a copy, and read it, and remember, this was written in 1994.

[beachofdreams]

The observation about the cap is interesting. In fact, many states (especially Republics) observe, through imagery and symbolism, and well as formal decree, that there is a balance to be observed between liberty and order.

The French, for instance, use this symbol as the Seal of the Republic,

[beachofdreams]

The motto of the Canadian government is, "peace, order, and good government" -- the equivalent of the the American "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happines". It seems that England and its Commonwealth have always kept a certain form of fascism in store and on the seat, not only as a matter of tradition, but as a living political ideal. In my country the Rule of Law is not only protected by the judiciary, but its power is sourced from the Queen and her appointment of the head of Her government -- the Prime Minister and his Cabinet. Not only this, but the ideal of order is extolled over liberty. In the US and in France, the judiciary and the legislature exist, predominantly, to protect liberty, but through the Rule of government. I'm not saying Canada or England is a dictatorship. Far from it. Nor is the US. But any of them could turn out to be. Yet, if any of them turned out that way, how different would they have become from their former selves, at least from their former formal selves

[peristaltor]

I thought about really enlarging the original post, and even had that image selected, until I waded into the overwhelming magnitude of fasces images in the world and decided to limit the discussion to a "reasonable" level.

There is one I neglected, one I meant to include with Lincoln. Note the Memorial armrests, and the fact that they did not have axe heads. This was traditional in the Pomerium, and is found in the US only associated with Presidents. There are similar fasces adorning the Oval Office, our equivalent to the Seat of Power, so it seems. (I guess I lost the link.)

Oh, the English symbol didn't appear, for some reason.

The Unicorn, by the way, represents Scotland.

I've visited Hadrian's wall (what's left of it). Those Scots have an independent streak in them!