A town council in south Wales wants to "opt out" of Welsh

[peredur_glyn]

I'm a little upset by this story. Basically, the town council of Aberdaugleddau (Milford Haven) in Pembrokeshire in south Wales have drawn up plans to go against the law, as posited by the Welsh Language Act 1993, and not automatically provide both Welsh and English versions of council documents, just English ones. Their argument is that it costs

Comments

[ceirdwenfc]

Personally, I don't think that the phrase "opt-out of Welsh" should be used in any part of Wales. Certainly, people can choose not to speak it

[peredur_glyn]

None of your interpretations are off, AFAICT.

Being afraid of legal action if their translation is wrong is a load of codswallop. They just need to hire a competent English-to-Welsh translator, of which there are loads. The kind of translation cock-ups that do occur (like the sign you linked to) are always the result of a council (or whatever) taking a supposedly easy route, by using an online translation programme or somesuch. The Welsh Assembly, I hope, is bending over backwards to help Wales become more easily bilingual, and it should be able to help out in places like Pembrokeshire where there are many English-dominant communities. People like the councilmen in this article just don't like what they don't understand. It's sad and irritating.

[edricson]

Rwy'n cytuno'n llwyr. Mae fo'n dywed, yn ei hanfod, mai dibwyd yw y rhai sy'n siarad ac yn darllen Cymraeg yn ol y gyngor leol. Gobeithio nad yw ganddo cymhellion hiliol, dim ond twpdra ac anfodlonrwydd i wneud pethau nad ydy fo'n hoffi gwneud neu yn deall.

[peredur_glyn]

Digon gwir. Dwi ddim yn meddwl fod y fath bobl yn meddwl eu bod nhw'n bod yn hiliol (neu'n wrth-Gymraeg): mae nhw'n rhy ignorant i fod yn ymwybodol o bwysigrwydd deddfau iaith Cymraeg. Dwi ddim yn coelio bod safio ychydig bach o arian fan hyn fan draw yn werth preyglu'r iaith yn Sir Benfro... :(

[filius_lupi]

Cost isn't really that viable an argument, it's true... what I don't understand is the "translation" of placenames on roadsigns when the name does not change. So you just have exactly the same name twice.

And minor differences could be done with brackets rather than repetition: "F(f)lint" would probably save about £2.80 in paint on
"Fflint
Flint"
and that would buy a hard-pressed council translator a consolatory pint.

I digress.

[peredur_glyn]

Cost isn't really that viable an argument, it's true... what I don't understand is the "translation" of placenames on roadsigns when the name does not change. So you just have exactly the same name twice.

I was under the impression that such names do not in fact get written twice. Places like Bangor, Caernarfon, Amlwch, etc. I agree that if any signs do actually duplicate such names, then it's rather absurd. Places like Fflint/Flint should probably just use Fflint (i.e. the Welsh spelling) as the only name, as they have done with Caernarfon. After all, nobody's going to mispronounce Fflint if they see it with a double-f.

and that would buy a hard-pressed council translator a consolatory pint.

If I were offered beer as an incentive for thrifty translation, then I would be a happy man indeed.

[egg_shaped_fred]

Frankly, if you live somewhere called Aberdaugleddau, I think it's a bit late to opt out of Welsh...

[peredur_glyn]

I've no idea how many of its inhabitants call it that, though. I fear that the English name is more widely used.

[ceirdwenfc]

That's precisely what I said, but I thought that if I put it in a comment, it would be obnoxious.

[echoesreturn]

The opt-put clause should be rescinded, but the socio- linguistic context of South Pembs should also be considered in this story. I wouldn't necessarily assume that it is non-Welsh / welsh speaking incomers to the area that have prompted this move. The area below the Landsker line (of castles) has been non-Welsh speaking since the Norman-era, and is very distinct from the Welsh language heartland of North Pembs. Indeed, the accent of south pembs is so distinct that it is often mistaken for a west country accent, and there is a strong Anglo-Welsh dialect in the area (English has been the dominant language in the area for far longer than the coal field examples you used.

I'm v familiar with Milford and can confirm that I've yet to meet anyone from there, or Haverfordwest, who use Aberdaugleddau or Hwlffordd ... but i do not support the town council's plans in anyway.