I’d like to know what other people’s impressions of Emma’s education with Miss Taylor are. Do you think she did a good job or was she too lenient with Emma? Should she have made her apply herself more and if she had, would this have made a difference to Emma’s character, especially in regards to meddling with other people’s lives?
I think Miss Taylor's education of Emma was complicated. I do think she was too lenient with her, but I don't think she would've been allowed to have been any other way. Mr. Woodhouse does nothing but indulge Emma and I think Miss Taylor was expected to do the same. I imagine Emma to have been a strong-willed child and I suspect she may have complained to her father if Miss Taylor were ever too strict on her. So, I think Miss Taylor did what she was supposed to do: provide an education and upbringing for Emma (and her sister, of course) in a manner that gave, perhaps, little true guidance. It's said repeatedly that Emma waffles about with her accomplishments: she reads little, she paints little, etc., which I think also reflects this. Look at Jane Fairfax as a foil: she is much more disciplined. I certainly think if Emma were raised with a firmer hand she might be less full of herself and superior
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Funny, although I agree that Miss Taylor was much too lenient, I never got the impression that Emma would have gone running to Mr. Woodhouse to complain. I know you don’t like Emma, and she certainly does have her flaws, but I think she was intelligent enough to realize that those correcting her were right, but too headstrong to follow their instruction - this might be because I know this hypothetical person who hypothetically does the same thing, but only hypothetically . Should I add that I like Emma despite her presumption and arrogance? The point being is that Emma was going to do what she wanted, consequences be damned. Again you’re right when you say she might have been less full of herself had she had a firmer upbringing
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I guess I didn't really mean that Emma would go 'tattling' to Mr. Woodhouse, but that she would've voiced her opinion (even as a child) if she felt she wasn't getting her way. It's really difficult to say 'what-if' in this sort of situation because, again, I don't Emma was ever anything *but* indulged, so who can tell how she'd react if she wasn't? I guess I shouldn't be jumping ahead so far, but one of the benefits to her marrying Knightley is that he may not always be so indulgent. He never hesitates to make his opinion known to her, at least.
I see how you (and others) like Emma; she's very likable other than her arrogance and what goes along with that. For me personally that level of arrogance just can't be brushed aside, which is why I dislike her.
I don't think Miss Taylor was ever called a governess either. In fact, I just read the part this morning where Emma is acquainted with Mrs. Elton and she refers to Mrs. Weston as having been Emma's governess. Emma is extremely affronted by this -among other things, of course
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I just started listening to Emma again and I have to admit you’re right Tara. Emma is arrogant. She really does feel superior to people around her. I just finished reading “Governess - The Live and Times of the Real Jane Eyres” and that made me realize that not only is she arrogant, what she does, or nearly does, to Harriett boarders on cruelty, whether intentional or not. Women in Harriet’s situation in life were not on good social footing and Harriet could have easily ended up another Mrs. Bates or Jane Fairfax, either having to live in poverty or having to go as a governess. Harriet herself says “But then, to be an old maid at last, like Miss Bates!” and “But still, you will be an old maid! and that's so dreadful!” to which Emma replies “Never mind, Harriet, I shall not be a poor old maid; and it is poverty only which makes celibacy contemptible to a generous public! A single woman, with a very narrow income, must be a ridiculous, disagreeable old maid! the proper sport of boys and girls, but a single woman, of good fortune
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That's funny cuz I actually noticed Harriet's doubts about Emma's opinions and pronouncements more this time, and her deference to her probably because of Emma's rank. I think I'm more aware of it because of having just read Mansfield Park.
If y'all are interested: Mentoria: or, The Young Ladies' Instructor by Ann Murry. This is the book JA gave to her niece, Anna Austen (later Lefroy)--not the same edition, but no matter. It's written as conversations between a governess (and not necessarily a Jane Eyre type governess, who was a bit more of an academic teacher only) and her young lady pupils; there are a few chapters with the young ladies' brother when he comes home from one of the public schools. This may give some insight as to the kind of education Emma received--not just academics, but manners, propriety, etc
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Well, I'm not sure that I can convince you that Knightley grows, because I'm not sure that he does. I will, however, say this in his defense: if some of the people, i.e. Miss Taylor or Emma's father, had checked her in her youth as she should have been checked, Knightley might have had to be a little less hard and arrogant in his corrections. He was basically trying to do what needed to be done within his limited time and influence over Emma (in that he didn't live with them). I look at him as the wall Emma should have run into much earlier when she was moving through the world a little slower
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In defense of Emma (*shock*) to Canute's comments about her cruelty to Harriet, I'm not sure if Emma truly knew how harmful her meddling could potentially be to Harriet. While I agree completely with your comments about how Emma could've completely damaged Harriet's chances at any sort of life, I think Emma had it in her mind that Harriet was a gentleman's daughter and had no reason to aspire to anything left
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Mr. Knightley. I'm rather ambivalent toward him, so I'm afraid I can't do much convincing to his favor. I feel he and Emma deserve one another because they're equally arrogant. Mr. Knightley is just as bad as Emma; the difference is he doesn't go around interfering in people's lives - except Emma's, and frankly, she needs interference and I do applaud Mr. Knightley for speaking his mind to her.
I don't at all like his attitude toward Frank Churchill. Yes, he has jealousy issues later on when he sees Emma's preference toward Frank, but before then he certainly has no excuse.
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I see how you (and others) like Emma; she's very likable other than her arrogance and what goes along with that. For me personally that level of arrogance just can't be brushed aside, which is why I dislike her.
I don't think Miss Taylor was ever called a governess either. In fact, I just read the part this morning where Emma is acquainted with Mrs. Elton and she refers to Mrs. Weston as having been Emma's governess. Emma is extremely affronted by this -among other things, of course ( ... )
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If y'all are interested: Mentoria: or, The Young Ladies' Instructor by Ann Murry. This is the book JA gave to her niece, Anna Austen (later Lefroy)--not the same edition, but no matter. It's written as conversations between a governess (and not necessarily a Jane Eyre type governess, who was a bit more of an academic teacher only) and her young lady pupils; there are a few chapters with the young ladies' brother when he comes home from one of the public schools. This may give some insight as to the kind of education Emma received--not just academics, but manners, propriety, etc ( ... )
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I don't at all like his attitude toward Frank Churchill. Yes, he has jealousy issues later on when he sees Emma's preference toward Frank, but before then he certainly has no excuse.
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