yet more Laura Roslin thoughts

[pellucid]

I promise, someday I will stop making multiple BSG posts every week! Today is not that day, however.

Comments

[beccatoria]

I completely agree with everything you've said.

I mean, clearly, I was never an A/R fan, but at the end of 4.10, I was ready to accept it. I was willing to believe that my interpretation of the show's intentions regarding his character was wrong and I actually honestly believed that they'd never do this to Laura and I was probably worrying over nothing. Like, there's an actual S4.5 promo reaction post with me getting psyched for the new season and Laura's yelling about coming for all of them where I dismiss the fan theory that she's angry because Bill's in danger (also in the promo) because THEY'D NEVER DO THAT TO ME, RIGHT?

And I just...it's so disappointing. I never thought they could take Laura away from me. They still haven't, yet. But it's getting there and I don't know what to make of that.

They can still fix this. They can. I think. I hope.

Confirming that she's the dying leader would be a start. I'm still hanging my hopes on the Opera House.

[asta77]

Confirming that she's the dying leader would be a start.

You know I've speculated that is still the case. Some people are frustrated by a lack of answers at this point, but I look at all the information we have been given and a lot of it ties in to what we've been told from the beginning. And if mysticism, a higher power, and prophecy are all to play a role in the fate of the Cylons and humanity then Laura should be the dying leader who leads them to their new home but does not live to see it. (Which is one reason I never believed 'earth' was the home they were looking for.)

I wasn't thrilled with Laura's characterization post discovery of earth. And while I wish we saw more Laura in recent weeks, her portrayal isn't bothering me. Maybe having had a parent who had cancer makes me more forgiving of her being sidelined or not acting quite as she should because it strikes me as being very believable.

[beccatoria]

Yeah, I have to say, it's not so much that her portrayal in recent weeks bothers me, per se. I mean, I loved her scene with Lee in No Exit, her scene with Caprica in Deadlock, her scene with Tyrol in STWOM; and I completely agree that it would be unrealistic to show her running around spry as anything since she has advanced and terminal cancer

[pellucid]

And this is the comment I really meant to reply to. *spams you*

It's more that I'm still really bitter about the AllAboutBill mutiny and insane (I just accidentally typed "inane": freudian slip much?) crazy person running and "let them eat cake," attitude that was apparently reversed only for the twenty seconds it took to defend her man.

Yes, this! And the fact that this was the bulk of what she's done in this half season, and even though I haven't minded the stuff in recent episodes, it's been so minimal and frakking passive that it's tainted with all the wtf-ery of the first few episodes. She was having something of a breakdown in those early eps, and understandably so--but what's going on with her now??? Other than cancer? We have no idea. We've seen no development past the breakdown, nothing to suggest what may or may not be affecting her actions and decisions (is it cancer? Bill? Earth? something else? some combination of the above?), and I just...have no idea anymore.

[callmeonetrack]

I've been on the fence with Laura all of S4 and possibly going back to s3.5 with Dirty Hands and The Woman, King

[pellucid]

I imagine you and I are looking for different things from Laura! I loved that scene with the Chief because she was being a cold-hearted bitch! Laura's been too wishy-washy this season, too influenced by subjective emotional responses, and that's just...not who she is, or so I've always believed. Not that the emotions aren't there (I actually strongly disagree with "The Hub"--I don't think she ever stopped loving people, but that she was holding people at arm's length in order to be able to lead the way she thought she needed to), but that she doesn't let them prevent her from doing what she needs to do. And that was the Laura that I felt finally came back in that scene with the Chief, for perhaps the first time since the beginning of "Revelations." I don't think she was unsympathetic to Tyrol's feelings, but she recognizes (how, I have no idea, but she was right) that his affection for Boomer makes him vulnerable to the ways she might use him (and through him harm Galactica, the rest of the fleet, etc.). Her attitude there struck me

[callmeonetrack]

Yes, we probably are (Heh Chaila had exactly the same response to my thoughts on Laura FYI.) I can't help feeling that they're penning her as very heartless and removed from absolutely everything she used to care about (namely the welfare of the fleet but also the people around her). She seems less like a real person to me making real decisions these days and more just a shell of her former self. :( I guess she really is just going through the motions. Maybe that is supposed to be a conscious distancing choice since she's going to die, but...it's a shame because I'd like to be able to care about her again before the show ends.

[pellucid]

Of all the people on the internet, Chaila is generally the nearest to being on the exact same page as I am about Laura, so that response doesn't surprise me in the least!

And I feel like the biggest problem, really, is just that they're not writing her as consistently anything right now, so it's hard to know what to think. *grumbles*

[dionusia]

Now. Granted, there are other things that have happened in recent episodes that might contribute to Laura's recent behaviour--Earth was nuked; she's dying again. But lacking any kind of clear writing whatsoever about her motivations, we see at least the confluence of these two things (whether or not there is causality): Laura falls in love with Bill and openly enters a romantic/sexual relationship with him (though I still think they were sleeping together by the end of season 3), and Laura abdicates her leadership role, gets back in the game but only long enough to be badass because she thought someone killed her boyfriend, and then stepped back from leadership once again.Okay, first, I want to say that I feel all your concerns here and I, too, have been upset with the marginalization of Laura (and also plain lack of screentime, which has bothered me much like the absence of Lee has for the last three episodes, so I'm really feeling the loss of their scenes cut from Deadlock

[pellucid]

I can read it the way you do, as well. But I have to work at it, and that starts to feel more like fanwanking to me, which is frustrating. I think the biggest problem is really that they're not writing her consistently, period--motivations seem all over the place, and then aren't followed up on for weeks, and we're meant to think that, what, a month or two have passed since the discovery of Earth by this point? Yet we haven't gotten much emendation of what Laura's doing and why since the immediate aftermath. In the lack of a consistent picture, I think people tend to run with the interpretations that ping for them--and in my case, that seems to be a tendency to freak the hell out that I'm seeing things I find very worrisome. Even if that's not the only thing there, it's the thing that stands out to me, so I fret. No, it's not terribly logical, but it also feels no less logical to me than trying to fanwank some other interpretation. I feel like they have stripped away the logical character development at this point so all we're left

[dionusia]

I can read it the way you do, as well. But I have to work at it, and that starts to feel more like fanwanking to me, which is frustrating. I think the biggest problem is really that they're not writing her consistently, period--motivations seem all over the place, and then aren't followed up on for weeks

I see. Well, that was my impression as I watched, and I didn't consider alternatives until I read others' posts. Because...yeah, a Laura who puts a relationship with Bill first is just not her.

I also felt like the first half of this season had an accelerator pedal on it, and that feeling has only increased. We always hear about epsiodes running way over time, and things that got cut. There's more story than there is time to tell it. It frustrates me that there are these gaps where we don't know what's going on with some characters and relationships -- it's like there are too many times we have to fill in the blanks. Everyone wants to see more of their favorites, to be sure, but I think with Laura and Lee in particular the

[pellucid]

I completely agree with you about the pacing--it all feels very rushed, and it seems like just about every episode has had stuff cut out, yes. Apparently last week's had a whole Adama-and-Roslin-deal-with-her-impending-death subplot that I can't decide if I'd want to see or not. Because on one hand it surely held some insight into Laura's state of mind (and I trust Weddle and Thompson with her state of mind a lot more than I trust Espenson or Angeli), but on the other hand I've hated, oh, most of what has gone on with A/R in these recent episodes, so the odds of liking whatever they'd have done with it here were not terribly good. Bah

[whatever_lj]

Hmmm. I don't know, Pellucid -- I think the main problem with the 4.5 season is simply that there hasn't been enough time and the show has so many ends to tie up (and the show has certainly used its limited time resources POORLY in my opinion).

But if the point is some idea that the Laura who loved the numbers on her whiteboard and held Bill at arm's length was doing it wrong and the Laura of 4.5 is somehow more fulfilled, then I am very unhappy!!!I don't know how you could characterize Laura as "happy" or "fulfilled" this season. She seemed depressed and desperate right after Earth. I guess she seemed slightly happy in the scenes with Bill in bed and the morning-of-the-mutiny-Tigh-coffee scene. Since then, she's mainly seemed sick, enervated and withdrawn to me

[pellucid]

She's not so happy or fulfilled, no. But what is she? I think that's my biggest problem right now. We got these scenes where she seemed almost manically happy in this way that pinged very strongly "Not Right" to me, and then we got understandable anger at the mutiny, and then we got sitting around and dying. How did we get from a to c?

I mean, yes, I can work through an explanation that works, but it's work, and that's what I find most frustrating at this point. Even if the writers have a consistent arc that they're trying to convey for her in these recent episodes (and it's entirely likely that they don't, given how all over the map it's been) they're not conveying it very well. I suspect it's mostly what dionusia points out above--that they've just got more story to tell than time in which to tell it, and for reasons surpassing understanding, people like Ellen and Cavil turn out to be the movers and shakers of the whole series, whereas people who have been major figures all the way through, like Laura or Lee, hardly get any screentime

[frolicndetour]

Not much to add, except that as much as I wasn't altogether sold on the way they were approaching Adama/Roslin even in season three, it honestly has never occurred to me that what we're seeing - or even what Ron thinks he's showing us, is Laura enters a relationship with Bill --> Laura loses perspective and abandons the Fleet. I think what they're trying to show is us is: Laura is utterly shaken by the discovery of Earth --> Laura decides to give up and let herself die -->Laura finally gives in and enters a relationship with Bill, because her responsibilities aren't holding her back anymore. There's a definite implication that she couldn't have both, which, to the extent that it's focused more on her than on Bill (I keep typing "Bull," heh) is a bit fail-y, but not as much as what you're worried might be happening. And to the extent that it's true of both of them, I can understand it, because they're not just any man and any woman; their relationship definitely creates the appearance of corruption, and has somewhat destroyed the

[pellucid]

I think the biggest problem here is that I'm not particularly sure they know what they're trying to portray about Adama/Roslin, and even if they do know, they're not executing it terribly well. And I fear that if asked, Ron or the other writers would answer the "what are you trying to show" question with a rather shallow "oh, isn't it sweet that they've finally gotten together; even though this journey has broken them down so much, they've got a little comfort here." Which is...not terribly satisfactory to me. And also not really what I'm seeing executed.

As for "The Hub," I can't decide what to think about it. I'd like to write it off (or at least the parts of it I didn't like; there were also aspects of the episode I really did like--particularly most of the Baltar stuff and some of the dream sequence stuff) as just an Espenson episode that doesn't quite jive with reality, but it seemed to be such an important episode in terms of Laura's development that it's hard to write it off. I do keep trying to see where the connections are