Spring!!!! and BSG: The Ties That Bind

[pellucid]

Let me tell you about my PERFECT DAY!!!! Weather: sunny, 25 C (mid-70s F). Oh, city mine! Days like this make me almost forgive you for winter! I woke up, watched BSG for the first time while having my coffee, then went to the grocery store, then walked downtown to MEC. I'm pretty sure the entire city was out, and at least half of them were in the

Comments

[pellucid]

Yes, I didn't mean to imply that Tory had somehow turned Roslin into the hardline utilitarian that she is--more that I'm afraid that the show itself might try to swing it that way to make us believe that. I don't know why I'm all with the mistrusting of writing lately; I'm somehow convinced that they're going to ruin Roslin.

But chaila43 explained Tory's actions by saying she'd learned from the master (Laura), and that seems just as likely. I think really that they're very similar and have influenced and facilitated each other as much as anything, which is just fascinating to me.

[asta77]

In the simplest of terms, Roslin airlocks the enemy and Tory saw Cally as the enemy.

[pellucid]

Yup, that about covers it.

[gabolange]

I am about three hours past when I should have been unconscious, so I am not up to meta at all, but I was most intrigued by Tory's role as Roslin's second at the same time as she is someone who is airlocking innocents to protect her own identity. Because there are very similar strains to the motivation there, and then there are also very, very different ones--because Laura wouldn't hesitate to airlock Tory for her role with Cally and the Cylon Trio of Doom, but yet probably draws a great deal of her strength from Tory's strong-mindedness. Hmm. Something I will probably natter on about tomorrow in my own post. We shall see.

As an aside, I'm fairly certain Tory gained Cylon superpowers, because the way she knocked Cally flat--while carrying Nicky--was nothing short of inhuman. And that adds a whole different creepy layer.

Right. Sleep now!

[pellucid]

If you've been a Cylon from the beginning, how can you not know you have Cylon superpowers? But yes, that was a crazy backhand.

The thing about Tory and Laura that will become interesting is that up until this point they've had the same goals and have been willing to employ the same strategies to bring them about (or perhaps Tory has simply adopted Laura's goals and goals of her own didn't matter so much). Now, Tory's got a different agenda--protect herself and her fellow Cylons--and she's still willing to employ the badass strategies to bring those about. Yet Laura doesn't know that Tory's allegiances have changed, and I have to wonder what will happen when Laura's goals and Tory's goals come into conflict.

[gabolange]

I do wonder if they'll introduce conflict between Tory and Laura, though I have mixed feelings about that prospect. Because on one hand, how fascinating would it be to develop a subtle power struggle between the two, as Laura and Tory both attempt to use the mechanisms of the colonial government for their own means? I mean, the potential for subversion and cover-ups is really grand. And yet, this is already turning into Laura-versus-the-world (and Lee's a jackass, but we knew that already), and I feel as if that sort of plot would probably serve only to drive Laura's already-broken credibility into the ground. I suppose that would make her more sympathetic to the viewer, but if I'm thinking about Laura as a character within those constructs, that would really suck for her.

So, yes, more thinking now that I'm (vaguely) awake and (mostly) human.

[pellucid]

I agree with your mixed feelings. It could be a very cool move, but as little as I'm trusting their portrayal of Laura right now, I'm not sure it's a move I'd want to see. So much would depend on the execution: is it Laura-versus-the-world because she's embattled and no one understands what she's doing and what she's sacrificing, etc.? If so, yes, viewer sympathy. But if it's Laura-versus-the-world because she's wrong and stubborn, then that's likely to further alienate viewers. And it's this latter that I fear.

What I'd really like to see are some one-on-one scenes between Laura and Tory to see how Tory's really playing this whole thing. They certainly appear to be as close as ever in a working sense, but we've only seen them in public. We're starting to see how Tory is dealing with her Cylonness on a personal level, but one of the things I'm perhaps most interested in is how she's dealing with it in relation to her job and to Laura.

Yay for being (vaguely) awake and (mostly) human. :)

[holdouttrout]

I love the layers here, of how characters influence each other and make each other stronger and weaker. Damn. So good.

I think you're right about Tory influencing Roslin (and vice versa). Roslin paired with Billy was sweetness and light and yes, hard decisions but not nearly as badass as Roslin thinks she's had to become. (And probably has.)

Love this show.

[pellucid]

This show makes me want to meta forever with its layers. So good, yes! Not that it doesn't have its problems, to be sure, but it's so full of complexity, and I love complexity as fodder for analysis.

[admireddisorder]

regarding laura: you said pretty much what i said. then again, it looks like i seem to be in agreement with you over her time and again, so that's no big surprise.

regarding tory: nothing of what she said or did was surprising to me. there's this deleted scene in the captain's hand, her first episode, where she's talking to laura and laura asks her how she feels about the whole abortion issue. tory replies, rather deadpan, that she isn't here to be the president's friend, or confidant. she's here to be her aide. assistant, whatever. that was the moment i had her pegged down as someone cold and hard, uncompromising in getting her way and willing to sacrifice anything and anyone to get where she thought she needed to be. nothing of what has happened thus far has made me change my mind about her, on the contrary. and cally's murder, however shocking to some, felt completely in character to me. and, like you said, it didn't feel like she lied to cally

[pellucid]

No need to apologize for long comments! :) And yes, I saw your post and was unsurprised to see that we were seeing Laura similarly once again

[admireddisorder]

personally, i wasn't that surprised that they killed cally the way they did. scary as it might sound, i don't think i'd have been surprised had little nicky gone down with her either. it's just something about this show that makes me sort of go "oh", and then accept whatever they throw at me. it's so real in that way, in the sense that absolutely shocking and strange and often contradictory things happen that make perfect sense only if you accept this as life, not as a "show". and THAT statement probably made no sense. ;)

that's kind of what i wanted to say about tory/laura: that tory wasn't "responsible" for laura's actions in any way. although, yes, i'll admit that she "enabled" them. i think i can safely assume that laura would have done all the things she did had billy been by her side, except attempt to steal the election. that was completely tory's doing, laura didn't even know what went on.

Similarly, I suspect Laura has influenced/facilitated/enabled Tory's actions. They're a fascinating pair--very like-minded--and I do

[pellucid]

See, two seasons ago, I would absolutely have expected it from this show. But I feel like they haven't gone there since very early season 3, so I'd kind of forgotten to expect that from BSG and had gotten complacent, I guess

[asta77]

Speaking as someone who loves Lee Adama ;), I do, in part, agree with you. I believe he does have deeply held principles, however I felt that a bruised ego played a role in his actions. Lee seemed as if he wanted to help Laura at the Quorum meeting. I think he regrets hurting her at the trial and wants to prove to her that he can be supportive of her and her presidency (this doesn't mean he'll always agree with her choices, but he's willing to be a sounding board). It's after she makes the "junior delegate" remark that he makes his decision to reveal the classified documents. This is a man who at one time turned his back on his friends, family, and career to support her, now she completely dismisses him. His reaction may not be commendable, but I felt it was understandable.

[pellucid]

Is desire for control the same thing as desire for power? Pretty much, I guess. I feel like if Laura's got a desire for power for power's sake, it's really a a desire for control for the sake of her vision. She believes that she has to get them to Earth, and she's brought the whole responsibility for it onto herself: it's her role, nobody else can do it, she's going to sacrifice everything she has to do it, etc. The flip side, of course, is this need to control everything, not trusting anyone else to do anything properly. It's terrifying, it's profoundly un-democratic, but I'm not sure it's exactly tyrannical in the "power for power's sake" sense. But maybe I'm splitting hairs