so about this "shipping" thing that we do...

[pellucid]

So yesterday, in two different conversations ( this one with daybreak777, vagueish spoilers for the extended Adama/Roslin scene from "Unfinished Business", and this one with dm_lunsford about Daniel/Janet) I found myself pondering what exactly it is we mean when we talk about "shipping" characters. So I thought I'd open it up for general discussion because I'm curious

Comments

[gabolange]

My point with all of this, really, is that I think we use this particular term to mean a lot of different things. I think you're right. I am undeniably a 'shipper--the fic I read, the links I follow, and many of the moments I love on screen are all about romance or relationships. But my 'shipper colors certainly come in different shades (wow, how's that for a really terrible metaphor?!) depending on the relationship and the show and the fandom surrounding it

[pellucid]

You point out a couple of aspects of the whole shipper thing that I hadn't thought of in the original post: first, to what extent does someone's basic fandom orientation tend (or not) to be pairing-focused (and particularly het pairing-focused?), and second, the question of the OTP--to what extent does identifying as a shipper imply (or not) that we don't want these particular characters paired with anyone else

[gabolange]

I think the other important distinction is that one's fandom orientation and one's consideration of a show don't necessarily have to collide. I maintain that SG-1 is probably the least 'shippy show I've ever seen, and I don't watch it for 'ship (though I do enjoy it when it happens, obviously). However, I barely touch gen fic within the fandom, because my fandom preferences are 'shippy. This is a general pattern for me: there are many shows I've really enjoyed that I haven't been fannish about, and that's usually because there isn't a 'ship within the show for me to get on board with. I don't go seeking fandom or fic unless it's for 'shippy purposes

[pellucid]

Job? What job?!

Yes, clearly this was NOT the post to have made on lecture-writing day... *headdesk*

On the other hand, so many people saying so many fascinating things about shipping! The lecture will get written, I'm sure. Right?

And I've always made the distinction between "shows I love but am not fannish about" (ie, The West Wing) and "shows I love and am fannish about" (ie, SG-1, Farscape, BSG). But I wonder if the impulse behind that distinction is actually a pairing one. I've never really analyzed it, but what if not feeling fannish about TWW is really a result of not being taken with any particular pairing therein. Or at least partly a result of that--I doubt it's the only factor, but it may be a more important one than I had thought. My initial way in to all my fannish shows has, in fact, been a pairing, even if my fannish interest hasn't stopped there. Hmm.

[daybreak777]

Hmm. What an interesting post. What does it mean to be a shipper

[asta77]

In general for me, it means wanting this couple to be together romantically. On the screen, in fanfic, wherever. As a shipper you take what you can get. You can ship the non-canon pairings too. In that case, you’re just happy if the two characters are in the same room with each other. Again, it doesn’t take much to make a shipper’s heart go squee.

You just perfectly summed up my feeling on Lee and Laura. You should have seen me the first time Laura called him "Lee". ;-)

[pellucid]

Again, it doesn’t take much to make a shipper’s heart go squee.Indeed. Daniel/Janet, my OTP from SG-1, is never really canonical. They hold hands once, kiss on the cheek once in an AU, have a few moments in which it's clear that they're good friends: enough for shippers to play with, but not enough to call it canon. But you're right that if a particular pairing pings, for whatever reason they do so, being in the same room together is enough

[daybreak777]

Yay! I knew this would be an interesting discussion

[holdouttrout]

Personally, I use the word "shipper" to refer to someone who is interested, canonically or non-canonically, in a particular pairing, regardless of the genders which comprise that pairing. So shipper is, to me, a neutral term used to refer to anyone who liked a pairing. A slasher is someone who characteristically likes same-sex pairings

[pellucid]

You seem to apply the broadest reach of the definition, it seems--though again, what do we mean by being "interested" in a pairing? I'm interested enough in, for instance, Sam/Jack: I've read lots of Sam/Jack fic that I like, I don't object to the idea of them being together, etc. But it's not the squee-inducing, this-pairing-pings-for-me interest that you have for them. I wouldn't describe myself as a Sam/Jack shipper, though I often enjoy Sam/Jack fic, and I happened to be re-watching "Window of Opportunity" the other day and felt my heart warm in the general direction of Sam/Jack.

All of which is to say that it is rather complicated, is it not? :)

I cannot see certain characters "happily ever after" together, but I could still enjoy a certain kind of "togetherness," that might be construed in some circles as ship.

If wanting "happily ever after" in some capacity is a prerequisite for ship, at least in some circles, I have very few ships by that definition. I'm definitely drawn to messy pairings and find romance hard to sustain.

[holdouttrout]

Hmm...you have a point, I think. I wouldn't call myself a Sam/Lorne shipper, although I might say that I'm a multishipper and include that on my list of ships. Wow. If *that* isn't confusing.

[asta77]

Fascinating post. I've never really thought about how I ship, just the pairs I do ship. I guess my definition of shipping is pretty general, it's two characters I'd like to see together romantically. Up until recently, I was a canon shipper - Mulder/Scully, Buffy/Spike, and John/Aeryn, to name a few. Of those three pairings the only one I've read fanfic for is Buffy/Spike. I was just getting into online fandom as The X-Files was winding down for me and with John and Aeryn I thought the show did such a damn good job portraying their relationship onscreen that I had no need to read other people's takes on the relationship. While Buffy and Spike were canon and, in some ways, I got what I wanted on screen, largely I think Joss dropped the ball on what could have been so I turned to fanfic

[pellucid]

The role that shipping plays in one's enjoyment of the show is really interesting. I do know something of what it's like to watch through ship-colored glasses: in the mid-to-late 90s I would have argued that the entire point of The X-Files was Mulder/Scully, and I still think of some of the shippiest episodes as among my favorites. ("The Rain King"? Not such a grand episode in terms of overall quality! And yet, so much squee!) And I hated Diana Fowley (though with more distance and maturity, I now think her character was a grand idea), and would have been devastated if Mulder and Scully hadn't ended up together in the end. So I do get it

[brynnmck]

Personally, I assume that "I ship X and Y" means "I am interested in X and Y hooking up." Some sort of active interest, not like what you describe with John/Delenn, where you're cool with them being together but you're not particularly invested in their relationship. But mileage varies, definitely, because I often find that the reasons that other people ship my pairings are not the reasons that I ship my pairings, or that people don't mean the same thing that I do when they say "ship." I'm a happy-ending kinda girl. So I tend to ship pairings that I think can be functional in the long term, and that's what I generally mean when I say I "ship" a pairing. But that's certainly not true for everyone (including you, obviously!). Your example of Adama/Roslin is perfect, and I've found the same thing to be true with shipping Kara/Lee; I'm interested in the ways that they're dysfunctional, but I'm more interested in them eventually resolving that dysfunction (not in the sense that they live in perfect harmony with a white picket fence,

[danceswithwords]

I've found the same thing to be true with shipping Kara/Lee; I'm interested in the ways that they're dysfunctional, but I'm more interested in them eventually resolving that dysfunction (not in the sense that they live in perfect harmony with a white picket fence, but in the sense that he stops calling her a slut, she stops marrying other people after she's had sex with him, etc.)

Hee. Such is the burden we bear.

[brynnmck]

What's funny is that I was going to say "stop punching each other in the face," but then I realized, I don't necessarily need them to stop punching each other in the face, I just want them to do it for the right reasons. You know? *wipes tear*

[asta77]

You people are sick! :p