Complexities of abortion and related issues

[peacetraveler22]

Comments

[peacetraveler22]

From a legal standpoint on the topic of abortion, a fetus becomes a "human" of sorts when he or she can be viable outside the womb, based on current medical standards. This is why some States prohibit abortions in the last trimester, unless the mother's life or health are at risk. But when a fetus becomes "human" - this is a very complex question. :) Like a reader who recently asked me - "is there a purpose for existence?" How can you answer it in a few sentences? :))

[peacetraveler22]

Exactly. There is a purpose for existence, of course. But it varies for each person, and even then, it may shift many times during one's lifespan. This is the most concise answer I can give. :)

[seadevil001]

I think, people who is against abortion should use free market approach - try to persuade womans who consider abortion to carry baby until birth for market price for surrogate mothers. After all, most of antiabortionists are all in for free market and government non intervention into private matters. So they should put their money where their mouths is.
This said, I believe prospective father should have say in deciding on fetus future, if he carry responsibility for it.

[peacetraveler22]

Religious dogmas are rarely based on any type of action - only indoctrination. They like to preach about and judge all the wrongs in the world, but do little to correct them. What if the prospective father and pregnant woman don't agree? Then, who prevails? It is too complicated of an issue. The woman is the one who carries the baby inside her, and goes through the medical trauma of birth and the after effects. A man is only responsible for shooting the load inside her. Sorry to be crude, bit it's the truth. And the mere act of doing this does not make you a "father."

[qi_tronic]

If being so crude I can say that a woman is just a vehicle for a man to get his descendants.
It's not true, of course, below I said that men and women should not be viewed one without another.
This is how nature is "designed", at least for mammals.

[peacetraveler22]

Omg, well your views about women and their roles or importance to the world are so scary that I can't even respond to them honestly. Each time you write something like this, my blood pressure immediately rises. :))

[no_xit]

Shit happens, yes. But that shit doesn't prevent abortions from being murder, unfortunately. Women's right to do whatever they want with THEIR bodies, for example whether or not to engage in sex with a man, is unquestionable. But is the fetus actually her body, or is it another being?

[peacetraveler22]

The exact point at which a fetus becomes a "being" is debatable. So, it's your opinion that this occurs precisely at the moment of conception?

[no_xit]

In my opinion - yes, it does. I don't want to blame or judge anybody, especially rape victims, but still, murder is murder. A soldier killing an enemy attacking his country is also committing murder, and the reason why he is doing that is another question. That's it. Welcome to samsara.

[mneniemoeumenya]

Murder is murder, i.e. it's just a word like any other that you may use for whatever stupid reason. Until a Voice from the sky validates your words, they are empty.

[mb_b]

Have you read 'Freakonomics'? They directly link Roe v. Wade to the drop in crime rate by the early 90's. Reading your post I half-expected to see a reference to that book.

[peacetraveler22]

I haven't read this book...I'm sorry to say, but it's quite rare when unwanted children born into neglect, abuse, or to drug addicted parents actually become productive and healthy adults. They often get trapped into the same cycle into which they were born...:( If you spend only a few months working in the juvenile or family court systems, this will become blatantly obvious. This is why I left this line of work, it is too emotionally draining and frustrating.

[moskitow]

I have the same opinion: women should have a right to terminate their pregnancy.
I've read lots of nightmarish stories about the time when it was illegal and the way women were trying to get rid of pregnancy with homemade remedies......it's not pretty and it's puts women's health and life in danger.
Switzerland is a progressive country but I don't think this law could go through. They need to name it differently for starters :) Since I raised my child without any child support from her biological father I would be glad if I(or she) could have some type of a legal paper that states clearly that my child has no financial obligations in future towards her biological father. So in a way, "legal abortion" for men is not a bad thing.

[peacetraveler22]

The best outcome is when the man and woman mutually agree about a child, including financial responsibilities, or lack thereof. However, this requires maturity and communication, which are qualities so many people lack in today's world. This is why it's necessary for courts to step in and dictate the rules for them, but even then, the mother often gets screwed. Just because there is an order for support does not mean the father will pay it, and Judges are so overloaded with such cases that there are rarely negative consequences for inaction. Children and mothers suffer as a result. On the other side, decent fathers who petition for custody when there's a deadbeat mom are often screwed, because there is still a strong bias in favor of mothers when it comes to custody. And this is not always in the best interests of the child.

[moskitow]

From what I've seen about american courts in action during my divorce - it's a disaster :) Very dysfunctional. So I prefer when a man can legally refuse his financial responsibilities but in return, he won't have any rights.
I would prefer to have, for example less taxes taken from me in the case when I don't receive any child support. I agree to be the only one who involves in the child. Maybe it's better to admit that a woman is responsible for the child more than a man...... but then give her more rights to make decisions about this child and maybe more support to raise a normal human being?

[peacetraveler22]

Yep, the family law courts are a total clusterfuck. Judges are overburdened, and both men and women often show the worst sides of humanity during these battles. Your proposed solutions are good, and courts beg and gladly welcome for parties to reach mutual agreements on their own. This happened in the last custody case I handled. All I had to do was show up at the hearing, and the Judge simply entered the signed contract as an Order to make it part of the official record in the event of breach.