7 Reasons the Mary Sue Witch Hunt has to Stop

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1) Everyone has made a Mary Sue at some point in time. Okay, maybe not everyone, but a very healthy chunk of the population. I think that if you hand your average kid/teenager a piece of paper and tell them to write a story about Harry Potter, they will come up with something that brushes up against the traditional definition of "Sue." The

Comments

I think you missed nothing, but geez did I have a lot to say! Haha sorry!

[ashirabe]

So we don't know each other but I was browsing darth_snuggles's friends list for some reason and this post really caught my eye. I'm 18 and would say my tastes are way more refined from when I entered fandoms and fanfiction/art, but I must make this confession: I started with Sue characters, too! I never ever posted actual fanfiction or art of them, quite frankly because I never really did much with them other than plan every last detail rather than create the details (haha hello early perfectionism), but even though I look back and see how ridiculous some of them were, I remember how much fun I had creating them and how much effort I put into making them realistic (well, relatively speaking, as far as these kinds of characters go

Re: I think you missed nothing, but geez did I have a lot to say! Haha sorry!

[paperclipchains]

I'm very interested to hear your personal take on it, though, and I think it's really cool that you have that many characters. I think more people would benefit from remembering what it was like to make a Sue before tearing the people who do to shreds!

I love OC-insertion because I think that a good OC that's tailored to the setting will tell me a lot about what the person got out of the source material, and seeing other people's interpretation is a big part of why I'm in fandom.

See, fandom? When it's done right it's really worth it, and even if it's not done right, well, it's also the internet. :)

Exactly!

[annwyd]

Yes.

When it's applied to canon characters, I've noted that Sue-calling is often used to legitimize and attempt to universalize personal dislike. "I hate this character! But it's not because of my personal preference. No, it's because she [and 90% or more of the time it's a she] has X stock traits that are common to Sues [and incidentally also fictional fantasy/anime/whatever characters in general] and also (insert ass-pull reasons here that make this character a Sue). It's not just that I hate her; it's that she's a bad character and you should hate her too."

And Sue fanfiction appeals to a specific audience and is usually easily avoided by others. If you're worried that a fic with an OC is going to be Sue-fic, it rarely takes reading for more than a paragraph to tell whether this is the case.

It's also, on the rare occasions when it's written with accurate spelling and comprehensible grammar, a lot funnier, more entertaining, and less fannish-rage-inducing than supposedly non-Sue-fic that twists the canon characters in ridiculous

[paperclipchains]

I've written this whole rant and I've yet to actually include a little note on how much I hate it when canon characters are made into Sues. Half the time no one will call them on it either. I mean, at least when someone writes a Mary Sue OC, they're being honest about any wish-fufillment and self-insertion instead of projecting themselves onto a specific character to be part of that universe and potentially bang them some hot bishies.

*Stares pointedly at the majority of Aeris fanfiction out there.*

I always have to look up the definition... I keep forgetting.

[glitteringlynx]

"Mary Sue, sometimes shortened simply to Sue, is a pejorative term used to describe a fictional character who plays a major role in the plot and is particularly characterized by overly idealized and clichéd mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as wish-fulfillment fantasies for their authors."

...

So that's like every fantasy novel protagonist ever. Not quite but still. LOL

Re: I always have to look up the definition... I keep forgetting.

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That's my whole point!

Re: I always have to look up the definition... I keep forgetting.

[glitteringlynx]

Yay! That would explain why I'm always so confused about the definition because.. I mean.. do we not THINK about how many protagonists of published and loved writings really fit this description to a tea? Seems rather hypocritical to me.

Re: I always have to look up the definition... I keep forgetting.

[paperclipchains]

It is very hypocritical. A better definition of a Mary Sue is actually a character who intrudes upon a story and "steals the show," sort of. A good indicator is when the character starts to be annoying. For example, House has gotten a lot more Mary-Sue in the later seasons because any objections to his methods have become entirely superfluous and Cuddy, who served as his foil in the first season, is no longer able to challenge him for some inexplicable reason. Like, they did a whole plot arc with her where she tried to get pregnant and they had House stun her into silence by saying "Oh yeah well I'm swapping your birth control pills with placebos." It's when you start getting jarring moments like this that you actually have to consider the possibility of having a Mary Sue on your hands.

[random_angelic]

I thought you could only get on ED if you actually caused wank and not your reviewers? Judging by the article it seems like the people writing it never talked to her at all.

As for Mary Sues, I tend to think of them differently than most people. When I was about twelve or thirteen my family was going through a lot of issues and we were in group therapy. Seeing that I had problems actually being able to explain how I was feeling the psychiatrist gave me a creative writing assignment. Basically she told me to make a Mary Sue and when I was feeling anxious to open my notebook and write fic involving her doing all the Mary Sue things that Mary Sues do. Now when I see Mary Sue fanfiction I tend to think of it as other people doing the same thing whether it's self-insert or not. Like you said, they're kids learning how to do this and how to express themselves. If you want a prime example of this in an original story, then read EragonWith regards to the flaming of Mary Sues in fanfiction, I've noticed that a lot of fandom culture has turned

[paperclipchains]

You can get on ED for any reason, chief among them because someone decided that you belonged there.

I agree that it's just bullying at this point, and over something incredibly inane.

[random_angelic]

Huh. Well then I'm glad that I rarely look through there.

I will never get this tendency. Ever.

Oh! Before I forget I keep wanting to send you links to the Game Overthinker. I think you might like his video essays.

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I'll take a look.

Sporking is a stupid word

[paperclipchains]

So do I! And why would I send them hateful e-mail when they've just entertained me with the Adventures of Draco-Veela?

I agree with you about the nerd hierarchy. Of course, it is a pointless endeavour because I am obviously at the top at the heap. Obviously.

But yes, you totally hit on my biggest pet peeve with the issue -- one of the things that offends me most about Sue-bashers is that they are really, really, really unfunny. At least have the decency to be clever JEEZ.

I wish I could say that my biggest pet peeve was with the way the authors are treated, but, uh... yeah.