that whole first season where John was playing hard to get

[nonniemous]

I came this fandom late--this spring actually.  So maybe I missed the meta/discussion the first time around.  But I'd really like to know if anyone noticed this, because I just don't see it in the discussions or the fics I've read in the last few months.

John said he went to ground because he was afraid of the YED finding the boys through him.  He

Comments

[fleta]

Yeah exactly! I'm soo glad someone else caught this. I mean I came late to the party two, like...well shoot... 4 eps from the end of season one... but yeah!

I agree with you completely. I mean, what if he had not gone to ground and the boys had a lot more than Meg going on? Heck, what if meg possessed Jess or something? yeah yeah i know unlikely, but... So much more damage could've been done if John hadn't chose to drop off the radar for the boys' sake, I bet it hurt him so much to do it, but he figured it'd keep them safer. And that;'s really all John thinks of, at his core.

[nonniemous]

I missed it the first time through, but I think that's because I was still paying a lot more attention to the boys than John at that point. But when I went back through and watched in terms of John's arc, yeah, it's there and it's kind of obvious.

Keeping his boys safe was his heart, really. "I won't watch my children die."

[nonniemous]

*g* John needs all the support he can get! Mostly his own fault, much as I love the guy.

[ficwriter1966]

I just re-watched "Scarecrow" a few days ago - I'd forgotten all about that phone call where he tells the boys what's going on. It really follows in a pretty direct line - he tells Missouri in "Home" that he can't see the boys until he knows exactly what's happening; then by the time of "Scarecrow" he knows it's a demon, and presumably knows what the stakes are.

I think his aborted voicemail to Dean in the Pilot showed pretty clearly that he vanished because he realized he was on the right trail, and wanted to keep his quarry away from the boys. He'd been with Dean pretty much constantly up to that point, as far as we know.

[nonniemous]

That's right, he does say that in "Home." And in "Scarecrow", he knew what it was at that point, so he could contact them and warn them as he did so. But the fact remains that his contact there is directly followed by Meg showing up--which says that he was right to stay out of contact for so long. That's really my point, that John DID keep his boys safe by his actions, cold and calculated as they seemed to be--and were, in truth. I guess I'm just reacting to what I perceive as a general air of condemnation towards John within fandom for his actions. He did have valid reasons for his lack of contact. (No one would argue that he could have handled things better.)

In the pilot, Dean says he's been going on solo hunts and the implication is he has been for a while. But given that most of their hunts seem to take a few days at most, I'd agree that he and John were more often together than not up to that point.

[ficwriter1966]

Oh, no, absolutely I agree with you. I probably am not expressing myself well because there's loud music playing and (while it's really good music) it's a little tough to concentrate.

Yes, there is a blanket condemnation of John among a lot of fans, and I believe it's undeserved. Certainly he could have handled things better, but it's his personality to choose the "Just DO it" line. He definitely had a good reason for what he did, and ultimately was proved right for making the choices he did - although in the long run it didn't accomplish much. Seems like all he did was delay the inevitable.

[nonniemous]

LOUD music is good for concentrating on some things, but not others. ;-)

Very true, that John didn't seem to do more than delay the inevitable--and it was the boys who ultimately located the gun for him, even though he was there on their heels. They saved one family, and then it all fell apart on them, and in the end, he was the one who brought the boys into the YED's clutches.

I wonder, though, how much JDM's burgeoning movie career and his inability to fit SPN in because of that had to do with some of their scripts in second season. I read somewhere that they wanted him for "What Is and What Should Never Be" but he couldn't fit it in to his schedule--and I've wondered about "Tall Tales" as well. (Though I'd be hard pressed to trade Bobby out of that episode even for John.)

[moordeb]

*uses Meg icon that doesn't quite fit* Wow, thank you for pointing it out. Scarecrow makes a lot more sense to me now. I always found Meg showing up out of the blue a bit wtf because of the 'how did she know Sam was there?' question. I've also wondered why the writers didn't save the big reveal that Meg was evil until Shadow, but I guess the reveal came in Scarecrow because the writers were trying to drop a subtle hint about John being under surveillance by the demons.

And also, yes, John's reasons for not contacting the boys make more sense as well.

BTW you're awesome and you totally win at life for picking up on this :)

[nonniemous]

Oh, love the Meg icon! I miss her; she was a good foil.

And yeah, it never made sense to me that she found the boys like that the first time or two I saw "Scarecrow." And neither did the reveal at the end. But it just clicked at some point that, "Duh!" John was being watched and Meg's appearance had to be because of John's call, and we'd never have known that if we weren't shown that she was a demon.

Hey, if I win, can I have the manwich from my icon as a prize? ;-)

Thanks!

[moordeb]

I really liked Meg too. Nikki Aycox was excellent at being evil, coy and slightly seductive without taking it too far.

And ooh! The manwich - is that from Weeds? We're getting the first season some time this year.

In regard to some of the other things you said above about John not being a rat bastard - it's true, he did everything he could for his kids. He didn't always go the right or accepted way about doing it, but the sentiment was there. He just wanted them to be safe, and probably saw Sam's teenaged rebellion (regarding playing soccer and what not, as well as Stanford) as being over trivial matters - soccer ain't gonna keep you safe, after all - and being away at Stanford meant that John couldn't protect Sam.

All Sam saw were the things that John wouldn't let him do, not the reasoning behind why John wanted him to practise bow-hunting instead of soccer - John probably expected him just to take the order and do it. This didn't exactly make Sam feel accepted, it just made him feel controlled. John's actions also kept Sam from

[nonniemous]

Oh, go ahead with the carried away. ;-) John needs all the support he can get!

And you're so right about Sam and John and how they saw things. I understand both of their POVs, and I'm actually the "Sam" of my own family. But John really gets a raw deal if you only see him through Sam's eyes.

And the "Manwich" is from Grey's Anatomy, Jeffrey Dean Morgan and Kyle Chandler. Lots of pretty, and lots of sexy voice/accent between them. Yum.

[saberivojo]

Yes, Yes, Yes! I never thought about that but it makes sense. I wish you could see me do that pull my right arm back, left arm forward YESSS motion.

I pretty much trusted John's reasons but I have to admit it was hard sometimes.

Validation is a great feeling. Thanks for pointing it out.

[nonniemous]

Hey, I have a good imagination; I csn do the visuals. *g* Me, I just did the "V-8" forehead smack. DUH! How could I miss that?

And yes, it is hard to trust John's reasons, mostly because of John himself!