Seeing this post in combination with Rilina's yesterday morning made me start thinking a bit about rhetorical patterns, not just of exclusion but of inclusion. Jane Austen, for example--widely acknowledged as one of the classics, part of the canon. But I wonder if that makes it easy for people to say, "Oh, of *course* I read women writers. Jane Austen's right there on the shelves!" In the same way that the rhetoric of model minorities gets used when people want to convince themselves that they are being inclusive.
On a side note:
>uh, not that anyone is probably looking forward to that...)<
*nods* And the whole "my best friend is gay/Black/a woman/blah" type rhetoric as well.
When I was counting Asians and other minorities at WisCon, Mely mentioned that people tend to overestimate the actual number of minorities or women or etc. present, which reminds me a little of the rhetoric of inclusion -- one female writer represents many more, while one male writer usually just represents himself or a specifc era, just because there are so much more that they go by narrower frameworks.
Austen wasn't actually much of an influence on the Brontes; Charlotte didn't read her until after at least Jane Eyre, and didn't much like her writing.
Dale Spender's Mothers of the Novel covers a lot of the neglected women writers from the 17th c. on.
meanders by againleadenskyJune 10 2006, 16:09:52 UTC
hmm. Interesting. (Note for reference - I am a woman, but not a feminist, and I don't read books as a feminist does.)
She didn't really write it (a man did, or even her own "masculine" side).
Out of curiosity, where does Tiptree fit in here? (And 'Andre Norton'?)
She wrote it, but it's not literature. She wrote it, but look what she's writing about! She wrote it, but she only wrote one.
Harper Lee, To Kill A Mockingbird. Still ends up on nearly every "American Classic" list.
She wrote it, but she's alone in the tradition. She wrote it, but....On a side note, because you do bring up "literature is defined by men" - do you hold that quality in literature is without affect by cultural norms - that what Russian readers find to be "great" would be the same sort of thing that American readers find as great
( ... )
Re: meanders by againoyceterJune 15 2006, 18:07:09 UTC
Unfortunately, I haven't read enough about either Tiptree or Norton to know how they fit in... most of what I know about them is via hearsay =(.
On a side note, because you do bring up "literature is defined by men" - do you hold that quality in literature is without affect by cultural norms - that what Russian readers find to be "great" would be the same sort of thing that American readers find as great?No, I think quality in literature and what's defined as literature is greatly affected by cultural norms. I can't say if a list by women in a gender-neutral society would be different from a list by men, though I'd argue that right now, because most of what's considered as "great" literature has been defined by men, it's hard to talk about it without that filter
( ... )
Comments 6
On a side note:
>uh, not that anyone is probably looking forward to that...)<
Well, I think some people are. Me, for one.
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When I was counting Asians and other minorities at WisCon, Mely mentioned that people tend to overestimate the actual number of minorities or women or etc. present, which reminds me a little of the rhetoric of inclusion -- one female writer represents many more, while one male writer usually just represents himself or a specifc era, just because there are so much more that they go by narrower frameworks.
And thank you!
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Dale Spender's Mothers of the Novel covers a lot of the neglected women writers from the 17th c. on.
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Yeah, I wasn't sure about Austen as an influence; all I remembered was that Charlotte really disliked her (negative influence?).
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She didn't really write it (a man did, or even her own "masculine" side).
Out of curiosity, where does Tiptree fit in here? (And 'Andre Norton'?)
She wrote it, but it's not literature. She wrote it, but look what she's writing about! She wrote it, but she only wrote one.
Harper Lee, To Kill A Mockingbird. Still ends up on nearly every "American Classic" list.
She wrote it, but she's alone in the tradition. She wrote it, but....On a side note, because you do bring up "literature is defined by men" - do you hold that quality in literature is without affect by cultural norms - that what Russian readers find to be "great" would be the same sort of thing that American readers find as great ( ... )
Reply
On a side note, because you do bring up "literature is defined by men" - do you hold that quality in literature is without affect by cultural norms - that what Russian readers find to be "great" would be the same sort of thing that American readers find as great?No, I think quality in literature and what's defined as literature is greatly affected by cultural norms. I can't say if a list by women in a gender-neutral society would be different from a list by men, though I'd argue that right now, because most of what's considered as "great" literature has been defined by men, it's hard to talk about it without that filter ( ... )
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