Got Into the Woods from Netflix. Am very confused now. I've never listened to the score before, so it was a little hard at times figuring out what everyone was singing.
And then they go off singing that no one is alone, that everyone's actions affects everyone else
Well, that's at least partly a warning, though. "Someone is on your side/someone else is not." Sondheim isn't arguing against the concept of making a call and choosing a side, there. He's saying that actions have consequences and you have to face up to those consequences, not that you should never act or that you're required to give up your friend for squishing because he made a mistake.
(And yeah, you know, it's a fairy tale musical. The audience is supposed to be on Jack's side.)
they go and blind the Giantess and kill her without a second thought
Well, they do, though. The beginning of No One Is Alone specifically frames the killing-the-Giantess decision as a difficult one.
Well, that's at least partly a warning, though. "Someone is on your side/someone else is not." Sondheim isn't arguing against the concept of making a call and choosing a side, there. He's saying that actions have consequences and you have to face up to those consequences, not that you should never act or that you're required to give up your friend for squishing because he made a mistake.
Exactly. Sondheim said in an interview that I saw years back that most people miss the significance of the song because they focus on "No one is alone." It is not meant to be a comforting song about community or about how everything will turn out alright in the end. It imparts some harsh truths, too. For example, as you said, "someone else is not". Other examples: "Others may deceive you...No one acts alone. Careful. No one is alone...Sometimes people leave you halfway through the wood," etc. It will turn out alright only if you learn the essential truth that actions have consequences, and that you own up to your actions and be willing to sometimes
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Huh. I love Into the Woods. I actually tend to want to stop after the first act because i know dark and depressing stuff is ahead. The "no one is alone" song bit is my least favorite portion of the whole. My understanding of the actions against the Giantess seems to be that she is too much of a threat to be allowed to stick around; she won't stop until she has her revenge, i.e. kills Jack, and human life is given a higher premium than non-human life in this world (they refuse to give up Jack even though it means the Giantess will continue her destruction -- rather like Buffy refusing to sacrifice Dawn in "The Gift," both decisions being ones i had a problem with). As for some deaths being taken more seriously than others, i think it in large part comes down to how in all narratives -- as in life -- certain characters are given higher priority than others
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Isn't it in some ways? With the Baker's Wife and the Prince in the Woods, for example? In a way, i think that's in large part what the whole experience of going Into the Woods is all about -- finding things "scary and exciting and eye-opening at the same time"?
Agreed. I think the entire second act is a reflection on how a trip into the woods is "scary and exciting and eye-opening at the same time," such as with the Baker's Wife's brief tryst with the Prince, something that pleases her, disturbs her, confuses her, and shakes her world upside down...a sensation that cannot be codified, explained, or categorized by her standard, everyday morals or beliefs.
But suddenly we have several random deaths thrown in, some of which are taken seriously and some of which are not.
One of the problems with the video is that that performance had a particularly poor audience, as they laugh at some inappropriate moments. None of the deaths in the second act that seem to be comical due to the audience's reaction, are funny at all, as they usually play on stage, such as with Jack's mother and Rapunzel. The only really comedic one is when they turn on the Narrator, which isn't just a meta joke but has some disturbing thematic significance, too. Interestingly, in his very next play, Sondheim used the characters-turning-on-the-narrator concept again, in Assassins, when the Assassins gang up on the Balladeer and drive him off the stage in Another National Anthem.
But right after that consensus, they go and blind the Giantess and kill her without a second thought. Does the Giantess not apply for some reason?One of the major lessons of the play is that in some circumstances the regular rules we have been
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"Into the Woods is a very complex play, particularly in how the seeds for destruction (and rebirth) in the second act are all laid in the seemingly light operetta of the first act."
Yes. When i wrote "I actually tend to want to stop after the first act because i know dark and depressing stuff is ahead," i meant to add that although i want to stop watching there, i can't because having seen it before i see so clearly all the stuff that is set up and know that there is so much that hasn't yet been dealt with.
"One of the major lessons of the play is that in some circumstances the regular rules we have been taught growing up have to be ignored."
Agreed. Although it bears pointing out the characters don't reject the tenet that killing people is bad, that human life gets priority over all other kinds, though the potential for the former is broached by the witch, and the latter is problematized in the whole discussion over the problem of the Giantess. "Last Midnight" is possibly my favorite bit of the whole show.
"Last Midnight" is possibly my favorite bit of the whole show.
You're not good, you're not bad, You're just nice. I'm not good, I'm not nice, I'm just right. I'm the witch. You're the world.Completely agree. In the recent Broadway revival with Vanessa Williams, those lyrics were actually changed, which made me want to tear my hair out. It changed to (singing to the baby
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That's the point "No-one is Alone" is making. The Giantess *is* right. So are Cinderella and Jack. "While we're seeing our side/Maybe we forgot/They are not alone/No one is alone."
Killing the Giantess is a matter of survival, not right. In that much, they follow the Witch -- if it's the Giantess or them, they pick their own survival.
But, yes, the second act is confusing and painful next to the first. Which is intentional.
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Well, that's at least partly a warning, though. "Someone is on your side/someone else is not." Sondheim isn't arguing against the concept of making a call and choosing a side, there. He's saying that actions have consequences and you have to face up to those consequences, not that you should never act or that you're required to give up your friend for squishing because he made a mistake.
(And yeah, you know, it's a fairy tale musical. The audience is supposed to be on Jack's side.)
they go and blind the Giantess and kill her without a second thought
Well, they do, though. The beginning of No One Is Alone specifically frames the killing-the-Giantess decision as a difficult one.
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Exactly. Sondheim said in an interview that I saw years back that most people miss the significance of the song because they focus on "No one is alone." It is not meant to be a comforting song about community or about how everything will turn out alright in the end. It imparts some harsh truths, too. For example, as you said, "someone else is not". Other examples: "Others may deceive you...No one acts alone. Careful. No one is alone...Sometimes people leave you halfway through the wood," etc. It will turn out alright only if you learn the essential truth that actions have consequences, and that you own up to your actions and be willing to sometimes ( ... )
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Agreed. I think the entire second act is a reflection on how a trip into the woods is "scary and exciting and eye-opening at the same time," such as with the Baker's Wife's brief tryst with the Prince, something that pleases her, disturbs her, confuses her, and shakes her world upside down...a sensation that cannot be codified, explained, or categorized by her standard, everyday morals or beliefs.
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One of the problems with the video is that that performance had a particularly poor audience, as they laugh at some inappropriate moments. None of the deaths in the second act that seem to be comical due to the audience's reaction, are funny at all, as they usually play on stage, such as with Jack's mother and Rapunzel. The only really comedic one is when they turn on the Narrator, which isn't just a meta joke but has some disturbing thematic significance, too. Interestingly, in his very next play, Sondheim used the characters-turning-on-the-narrator concept again, in Assassins, when the Assassins gang up on the Balladeer and drive him off the stage in Another National Anthem.
But right after that consensus, they go and blind the Giantess and kill her without a second thought. Does the Giantess not apply for some reason?One of the major lessons of the play is that in some circumstances the regular rules we have been ( ... )
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Yes. When i wrote "I actually tend to want to stop after the first act because i know dark and depressing stuff is ahead," i meant to add that although i want to stop watching there, i can't because having seen it before i see so clearly all the stuff that is set up and know that there is so much that hasn't yet been dealt with.
"One of the major lessons of the play is that in some circumstances the regular rules we have been taught growing up have to be ignored."
Agreed. Although it bears pointing out the characters don't reject the tenet that killing people is bad, that human life gets priority over all other kinds, though the potential for the former is broached by the witch, and the latter is problematized in the whole discussion over the problem of the Giantess. "Last Midnight" is possibly my favorite bit of the whole show.
You're not good, ( ... )
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You're not good, you're not bad,
You're just nice.
I'm not good, I'm not nice,
I'm just right.
I'm the witch.
You're the world.Completely agree. In the recent Broadway revival with Vanessa Williams, those lyrics were actually changed, which made me want to tear my hair out. It changed to (singing to the baby ( ... )
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Killing the Giantess is a matter of survival, not right. In that much, they follow the Witch -- if it's the Giantess or them, they pick their own survival.
But, yes, the second act is confusing and painful next to the first. Which is intentional.
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