Hitchens defeats Blair in Canadian religion debate

[popehippo]

Tony Blair told an audience member at a debate yesterday that his religious beliefs did not play a role in his decision to support the US invasion of Iraq - but the votes went 2-1 the way of his opponent, Christopher Hitchens.The former prime minister said it was true that "people commit horrific acts of evil in the name of religion". But Mr Blair

Comments

[hey_its_michael]

All I am going to say is I'm Team Hitchens.

Also, here's hoping medical science helps him survive longer. I saw an excellent interview he did with Lateline (I believe it's an Australian program) and he looked so ill. However, his passion and logical reasoning didn't seem dulled in the least. We need more people like him on this planet.

[popehippo]

I honestly hadn't heard *anything* about him being sick until I found this.

*lives under a rock, apparently*

[hey_its_michael]

Well, it was fairly recently discovered this summer, so you shouldn't feel bad for not knowing. It was only more recently that he really began to exhibit the physical effects of the cancer and the concurrent treatment.

[entropius]

I wonder how much better his treatment would be if instead of spending $2,500,000,000,000 blowing up Iraq (at the behest of the God that Bush talks to) we'd spent in science?

[kerrypolka]

It would be great to have this debate between people other than white cis straight Oxford-educated dudes, and talking about (and/or coming from) any religious context than a British Christian one!

Someday. :(

[hey_its_michael]

Debate aside, I highly recommend the books of Ayaan Hirsi Ali. She is a Dutch feminist atheist author of Somali origin who writes of her views on religion in general. She certainly brings a different perspective to the issue.

My personal favorite book of hers is "Infidel".

[kerrypolka]

Thank you for the recommendation! I get very annoyed at things like the debate in the OP where it's like,

IS RELIGION RUBBISH?

TWO PRIVILEGED DUDES ARGUE ABOUT INTERSECTIONALITY

SO THE REST OF US CAN KNOW WHAT TO THINK ABOUT THINGS

ETA: also, at how I'm pretty sure a vote would have gone 2-to-1 against "Resolved: Puppies are cute" if Tony Blair had been the one on the pro-puppy podium because it's TONY BLAIR.

[hey_its_michael]

I totally understand. I am a big Hitchens fan, but I yearn for truly diverse perspectives within the atheist / secular humanist community. Hearing two white European dudes debate about this, even if I happen to strongly agree with one of them, affords neither myself nor others of any unique perspective the way someone like Ali does. I was thrilled to discover her books a few years back when she first started writing on the subject, and love the way she reflects upon her own experiences.

[hey_its_michael]

Damn, Hitchens is a trooper. I could only hope to still do half of what he does if I were stricken with illness.

[teacup_werewolf]

Out curiosity, do Hitchens or Dawson talk about the issues within non-Abrahamic faiths? Because in my opinion and in my observation, it feels that atheists only seem to critique the Abrahamic faiths. That religion doesn't mean the whole spectrum of various faiths (Hinduism, Jainism, Tao, Animism....) but just Christianity, Islam and Judaism.

Are their any papers that Dawson or Hitchens wrote critiquing other faiths? I am just curious. Feels like the majority of news articles is more Atheist vrs Christian than Atheist vrs Other Religion.

[hey_its_michael]

The answer to your question is yes. While they tend to use examples from the Abrahamic faiths, they also remove the discussion to that of mysticism, and theism (whether mono or poly) in general. The underlying philosophy they espouse is not limited to one brand of religion / mythology or another. For example, in "The God Delusion", Dawkins discusses theism at length in an abstract manner, which removes the relevance of which type of theism one might raise.

[kerrypolka]

I disagree with the comment above; while there is usually some namechecking of non-Abrahamic religious, it almost always takes places in the paradigm of Christianity (like Hitchens saying "salvation is offered, redemption, indeed, is promised"). Judaism is Christianity With Big Hats, Islam is Christianity With Misogyny, Hinduism is Christianity With A Blue Filter On, etc. It's really frustrating because I would love to hear/have a conversation about the other world religions and What Good Are They but it's not happening in this sphere.

[teacup_werewolf]

So, all religion=Christianity according to the big names?

[kerrypolka]

I don't believe in a transcendent god (ie am atheist in that sense) but I would say I have been inspired to do good by religion. My religious practice makes me feel capable and determined to Save The World(tm). I would feel the same way without it, but I doubt it would be so sharply honed and organized -- shul is fab for putting together charitable appeals with things like Mitzvah Day, Yom Kippur Appeals, homeless shelter giving/volunteering around Sukkot, etc.

I think just as people tend to do worse kinds of worse in communities, they also tend to do better kinds of better. I don't think that's a reason to attack the idea of communities, more human psychology.

[kerrypolka]

So what exactly, for you, makes the difference? Do you get extra help from others or is it something else?

It's a combination of things? Like, the aleinu at the end of Saturday morning service has the theme of "We have the obligation of making the world a better place", so it gives you that little shot of invigoration to actually bother to do something instead of "oh I should totally do [x] but [I'm busy/it's my turn to do the washing up/I have a cold and I'm tired/etc]". Like a booster shot of social justice.

Maybe you could say what things you do charitable that are secular in nature.I'm not sure where you're putting the distinction? Like, we're not only giving to Jewish homeless shelters, the goyim sleep there too. I give £300 a month to Oxfam, Refuge and Partners in Health which isn't organised by my shul, if that's what you're asking, but I think it is absolutely true that my religious practice gives me more energy in the "let's fix the world!" zone and also facilitates it by organising charitable and social justice things. It