MSNBC is the lefty equivalent of Fox News. Keith is right saying not all cable is fox.. in that MSNBC isn't as effective as fox because they give up valuable hours they could be pushing their own agenda on weekends to play Lockup and Snapped. Perhaps MSNBC panders to a more educated audience, but the people that watch Fox don't think they're dumb. And they don't think the fox rhetoric is dumb either. Jon made a huge point at the rally with "if you amplify everything, you hear nothing."
Yes, reality has a liberal bias, but a liberal dude shouting to drown out a conservative dude equals two dudes shouting. This was the point Jon was making the whole time. The point he's been making since the incident with CNN's Crossfire. And Keith has been butthurt long and hard about Jon picking on him. He just didn't go so far as to call him a bigot like Rick Sanchez.
Re: Team StewartsalienneNovember 2 2010, 01:25:30 UTC
Yes, people should stop shouting.
Jon still made such false equivalencies (e.g. calling Tea Partiers bigots =/= saying progressives are destroying our country) and deserves to get called out for that.
Also, to say MSNBC is as left-wing as Fox News is right-wing is honestly pretty laughable.
Re: Team StewartfishphileNovember 2 2010, 03:32:17 UTC
Also, to say MSNBC is as left-wing as Fox News is right-wing is honestly pretty laughable.
Seriously. I watch them both (though I have a lower tolerance for Fox) and MSNBC does not touch the level of vitriol and just outright lies of Fox. In fact, I don't even think Keith is the most wrong or annoying one on MSNBC. I'd say Ed deals in more Hannity-like terms than Keith. And there's no eqivalent of Beck there. There just isn't.
Well, I'm not arguing that Jon's job is to be a journalist, neutral or otherwise. As far as I'm concerned, Stewart, like the rest of us, is private citizen with personal views on politics.
And just like private citizens, we call each other out. Jon happens to hold a mic to his face when he expresses his, so that's gonna attract more agreement/disagreement than at some corner pub after work.
I like the dynamic, too, it's always existed on TDS; I just think the criticism as of late is that Jon used to be able to be dynamic (and comedic) without making false equivalencies. It's changed over the last couple of years, and is most amplified in the weeks leading to the rally.
To me, it's a question of making all the usual (and right) observations about the [over-the-top/melodramatic] animus in silly partisan rhetoric ans mainstream journalism, but while using terrible/sloppy supporting examples.
I say that as a Canadian who observes American politics with VERY little difficulty in finding the absurdities all over the U.S. partisan spectrum, too. LOL
Re: Team StewartsalienneNovember 1 2010, 20:18:00 UTC
one of you is a comedian and one of you is a journalist.
Okay, seriously, can we stop with the whole ~he's a comedian and can't be criticized~ thing. I hear that every day from everything to sexism to news coverage, and it's bullshit. Comedy is not a get-out-of-jail-free card.
And Stewart even said he was turning serious at the end of the Rally, during the speech, which is where a lot of those false equivalencies showed up.
There are issues with the message Stewart is propagating, and saying he's a comedian and Olbermann is a bad journalist so there!, doesn't do much more than side-step the question while still pretending to answer it.
Re: Team Stewartdanceprincess20November 1 2010, 20:28:49 UTC
I don't like this "Jon Stewart is just a comedian" but I still agree. Keith Olbermann plays up the "it's the end of the world!" thing the same way FOX news does. I often agree with him but that doesn't make it right.
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In what way is Olbermann wrong?
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Yes, reality has a liberal bias, but a liberal dude shouting to drown out a conservative dude equals two dudes shouting. This was the point Jon was making the whole time. The point he's been making since the incident with CNN's Crossfire. And Keith has been butthurt long and hard about Jon picking on him. He just didn't go so far as to call him a bigot like Rick Sanchez.
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Jon still made such false equivalencies (e.g. calling Tea Partiers bigots =/= saying progressives are destroying our country) and deserves to get called out for that.
Also, to say MSNBC is as left-wing as Fox News is right-wing is honestly pretty laughable.
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Seriously. I watch them both (though I have a lower tolerance for Fox) and MSNBC does not touch the level of vitriol and just outright lies of Fox. In fact, I don't even think Keith is the most wrong or annoying one on MSNBC. I'd say Ed deals in more Hannity-like terms than Keith. And there's no eqivalent of Beck there. There just isn't.
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And just like private citizens, we call each other out. Jon happens to hold a mic to his face when he expresses his, so that's gonna attract more agreement/disagreement than at some corner pub after work.
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To me, it's a question of making all the usual (and right) observations about the [over-the-top/melodramatic] animus in silly partisan rhetoric ans mainstream journalism, but while using terrible/sloppy supporting examples.
I say that as a Canadian who observes American politics with VERY little difficulty in finding the absurdities all over the U.S. partisan spectrum, too. LOL
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Really?
Keith, I'm sorry, I know you think you're on the "good guy" team, but Bill O'Reilly thinks the same thing about himself on Fox.
I love Rachel, "The Last Word" ain't half bad, but you Keith are a theatrical name caller as much or more than anyone else on the right you may hate.
You and Stewart actually have a lot of the same idea and tactics, but one of you is a comedian and one of you is a journalist.
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Okay, seriously, can we stop with the whole ~he's a comedian and can't be criticized~ thing. I hear that every day from everything to sexism to news coverage, and it's bullshit. Comedy is not a get-out-of-jail-free card.
And Stewart even said he was turning serious at the end of the Rally, during the speech, which is where a lot of those false equivalencies showed up.
There are issues with the message Stewart is propagating, and saying he's a comedian and Olbermann is a bad journalist so there!, doesn't do much more than side-step the question while still pretending to answer it.
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