Vatican Proposes Dramatic Shift In Attitude Towards Gays, Same Sex Couples

[moonshaz]

(Reuters) - In a dramatic shift in tone, a Vatican document said on Monday that homosexuals had "gifts and qualities to offer" and asked if Catholicism could accept gays and recognize positive aspects of same-sex couples.The document, prepared after a week of discussions at an assembly of 200 bishops on the family, said the Church should challenge

Comments

[that_which]

Basically the new pope is pissing all over the old pope's legacy while the old pope is still around to see it, and the old pope's shock troops can't use the Vatican to bully local politicians into supporting abusive laws aimed at gay folks.

It's not perfect, but it's a good thing. And I hope the old pope is feeling just a fraction of the pain he's caused right now, because that's a lot of pain.

[moonshaz]

And I hope the old pope is feeling just a fraction of the pain he's caused right now, because that's a lot of pain.

Oooh, I like the sound of that! Tbqh, I couldn't stand Pope Benedict. Not being Catholic, I wasn't sure I really had the right to an opinion, but I did have one almost in spite of myself. That opinion started out as: "This guy looks fucking creepy." And stuff I have learned about things he said and wrote both before becoming Pope and while he was in office shifted that opinion to: "This guy IS fucking creepy."

When he stepped down, I was very happy for all the Catholics I know and very glad I wasn't going to be seeing his little troll face in the news any more. Francis is a huge improvement from what I can see.

[lied_ohne_worte]

His looks, really? He's an old man, and old people tend to look according to their age. It's not like he's to blame for them or as if they were some kind of outward sign of his character or whatever

[oldruggedspork]

I grew up Catholic, and had the most horrific nightmares over the weekend, complete with lots of Freudian references to Catholic priests vestements and the lifting of them, and what lies beneath. It was really sick. My parents were quite abusive and tight with priests

[liliaeth]

I think the reason the text is written as it is, because they're trying not to go too far too fast. There's still too many homophobic people in high positions in the church, so they're trying to ease them into things by throwing them some crumbs, while at the same time opening the church to more modern ideas and acceptance.

[moonshaz]

That makes a lot of sense.

[moonshaz]

This feels a bit like that first shift of weight before you take a first step.

Excellent analogy!

[lizzy_someone]

Basically "Not all gay people are completely awful, I guess." Gee thanks Pope, um, you too, I guess.

To the extent that this makes life easier for queer Catholics and queer family/friends/acquaintances of straight Catholics, I'm truly happy for them, but it's kind of humiliating to watch people practically cream themselves every time the Pope grudgingly admits that gay people are, like, human and stuff, but still nowhere near as good as straight people, of course. We have "positive aspects," okay, that doesn't mean much if you still think we deserve to burn in hell for all eternity.

[silver_apples]

To the extent that this makes life easier for queer Catholics and queer family/friends/acquaintances of straight Catholics, I'm truly happy for them

I doubt it will, really. I have some conservative Catholic relatives (and conservative Protestant relatives with the exact same attitudes), and this won't change their minds or behavior. They'll still be polite but disapproving, "love the sinner, hate the sin", pray for them, and complain about how the world/country/Church is becoming liberal and sinful.

Some people will welcome the change, but they are the ones who were calling for it in the first place. Hopefully this will help the next generation grow up more welcoming and accepting, but I doubt it will change many adults.

[ohmiya_sg]

Yup.

[lied_ohne_worte]

Sounds nice and all, but there have been documents saying gay people should be treated with "respect, pity and tact" before. The thing that has an actual impact on gay people will be whether the rules will change. As long as the gay Catholics I know who work for the church can be fired at any time for not living according to the principles of the Church, this does not help them.

[moonshaz]

Thanks for sharing your insight on this.

I hope SO much that Pope Francis stays safe, because he's a human being who deserves to live (of course), but also because I feel like he is capable of accomplishing--who knows how much--if he gets the chance. I guess we'll all just have to hope for the best.