Pledge Of Allegiance In Public Schools Doesn't Discriminate Against Atheists, Court Says

[moonbladem]

The Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts ruled Friday that reciting the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools does not discriminate against atheists, despite containing the words "under God."

According to the AP, the court ruled in Doe v. Acton-Boxborough Regional School District that the phrase "under God" reflects a patriotic practice and is

Comments

[layweed]

So wait, does reciting the pledge constitute a "patriotic practice" or "under God" constitute a "patriotic practice"? Because fuck me if it's the second one.

And I'm pretty sure no one told me when I was 7 years old that reciting the Pledge was voluntary. Granted that was 25 years ago but I'm pretty damned sure it wasn't then and it probably isn't now, no matter what a court says.

[astridmyrna]

I had a French teacher in HS get pissy at me because I would stand and remain silent during the pledge, especially since he wanted us to recite it in French. I'd get around it by just mouthing it when he was too far away to hear me, because everyone else was half-mumbling, half-reciting it so loudly you couldn't tell who was talking.

[emofordino]

this is exactly what i was thinking! i don't know if things have changed since i've been in school (i graduated in 2006), but when i was in elementary, junior high, AND high school, we were all forced to stand up and recite the pledge every morning, and if we didn't, we'd get in trouble. that's hardly voluntary.

[firefox1490]

ngl I never said it in school. I would just stand there and wait till it was done and sit again. We didn't say it that often to be fair but when we did I just didn't do it.

[astridmyrna]

notwithstanding its reference to God, is a fundamentally patriotic exercise, not a religious one,

[fabrisse]

I thought Madelyn Murray O'Hair and the Jehovah's Witness (who won't swear oaths) had won this argument back in the 1960s.

Would that more Christian's believed as Theodore Roosevelt did:
“To put such a motto on coins,”[In God We Trust -- which to my mind is analogous to adding "under God" to the Pledge] Roosevelt wrote, “or to use it in any kindred manner, not only does no good but does positive harm, and is in effect irreverence, which comes dangerously close to sacrilege.”

[moonshaz]

Old Teddy got it right! Too bad no one was (or, for the most part, is) listening. :(

[tigerdreams]

If the phrase "under God" "reflects a patriotic practice," then it is implying that attesting to God is a patriotic activity -- which undeniably does imply that atheists are less patriotic simply by virtue of being atheists. So yes, discrimination.

"courts that have considered the history of the pledge"

A history that includes having God shoehorned into it in the 1950s explicitly to distance "patroitic America" from "godless Communism"? That history? >:[

[moonshaz]

I wonder if this will be appealed in the federal courts now. I hope so. It'll be really interesting to see how it plays out.

Because yeah, this decision STRONGLY implies that attesting to God is a patriotic activity, which would be a clear violation of the separation of church and state.

[tigerdreams]

I'm cynical about this. Maybe if it hit a very liberal circuit court, it might get somewhere, but the courts have a long tradition of shoving their fingers in their ears and pretending that somehow "symbolic monotheism" or whateverthefuck they call it isn't an establishment of religion.

It bothers me, because when this country was founded, it wasn't just nonbelievers that were pushing to keep God-language out of our government; minority denominations of Christianity were afraid enough of the establishment of a state church that they campaigned against any representation of official piety. And now, here we are. :\

[amyura]

And the MA SJC is a pretty liberal court. First court in the country to declare marriage equality a constitutional right, and upheld buffer zones around abortion clinics.

[wren123]

In my public schools in Wisconsin, in the '80s and '90s we were told, at the beginning of each year, that the pledge was mandatory, unless we had a note from our parents stating that saying the pledge went against our families' belifes. In which case, we could sit quietly during the pledge

[thesilverymoon]

Oh man, I'm glad my schools were exactly the opposite. Even though I was in a public school in Kansas of all places our teachers were always quick to remind us that it was totally voluntary to even stand up for it.
I was lucky, I guess.

[ginger_maya]

And in the meantime this happens:
http://www.khou.com/news/local/Community-members-sound-off-after-school-punishes-boy-for-refusing-to-stand-for-Pledge-of-Allegiance--258546821.html

[deadsong]

...what I loved about that article is all the soldiers and veterans commenting saying, "Hey, all you people saying he should show respect for the soldiers the flag represents? I fought so this kid would have the freedom to do exactly what he did. Good for him. Now shut the fuck up. Freedom doesn't mean 'only free to do what you agree with.'"