Well If That's Love, It Comes At Much Too High A Cost

[magus_69]

'I love you, too': Cardinal Dolan says Catholic Church must embrace gays and lesbiansProminent U.S. Cardinal Timothy Dolan acknowledged Easter Sunday that the Catholic Church needs to forge a better relationship with the gay and lesbian community

Comments

[chaya]

You forgot tags.

[magus_69]

EEP! Sorry. Fixed.

[kittenmommy]

“Sexual love … is intended only for a man and woman in marriage, where children can come about naturally,” he said.

So a cis straight married couple who cannot reproduce for whatever reason should abstain from sex?

These people are just insane.

[thelilyqueen]

Well, from what I understand of Catholic doctrine, that infertile cis couple can still have sex as long as they're not trying to avoid pregnancy. 'Miracles' can happen, after all.

The part I'm still not clear on is why I, an agnostic in a country with no official religion, should give a rat's behind about the Catholic Church's opinion on same-sex marriage, divorce, etc. Our only restrictions on marriage should be things like minimum ages, so there's valid consent.

[chaya]

'Miracles' can happen, after all.

If a cis man can have sex with a cis lady who's had a hysterectomy, I feel it's fair to let two cis men have sex. They have just as much chance as giving birth as the hetero couple.

[thelilyqueen]

Oh, I hear ya.

[lamardeuse]

We gotta do better to see that our defense of marriage is not reduced to an attack on gay people,” Dolan said.

Riiiiiight. Because demanding that a group of people should be treated like second-class citizens isn't an attack AT ALL.

[agentsculder]

I think Dolan means what he says. He doesn't hate gay people. I think he honestly believes that marriage is a holy sacrament, and that as long as the Bible says that homosexuality is wrong, than homosexual relationships cannot be blessed by the Church. That's what it comes down to for him.

Where I think he and most of the Catholic Church goes wrong is taking their sincere, deeply held beliefs and trying to impose them on a secular world. If they don't like gay marriage, fine. They don't have to bless gay marriages. They think abortion is wrong, fine. They don't have to have one. Just don't tell the rest of us what to do or believe. At the point where they start to use their positions that are influenced by a faith that not everyone else believes in to take political stands that impact EVERYONE is the point where I get really frustrated.

[lamardeuse]

I really don't care what he feels or doesn't feel in his heart. To say those beliefs are sincere or deeply held doesn't make them any less bigoted or wrong. The Bible has been used as an excuse for slavery, too, and I'm sure the people who thought the Africans were the children of Ham had pretty sincere and deeply held beliefs, too. Bottom line: if you're out there campaigning for one group of people to be discriminated against in the broader society, that's an attack.

[agentsculder]

I don't disagree with you. Campaigning for discrimination is wrong. I do, however, believe that Dolan and other like him are free to believe whatever they like. I happen to think they're dead wrong.

The issue is that they want the state to enforce that belief. That's where it crosses the line. That's where it ceases to merely belief, but action.

[lovedforaday]

Dolan called for a more conciliatory approach to gay and lesbian Catholics who may feel alienated by Church doctrine, which is traditionally opposed to homosexuality.

These people honestly think if they're only ~nicer~ about how they say things, it'll make whatever bigoted bs they say all right.

[lamardeuse]

They really want to tell gay people how much they love them! That means a lot coming from a bunch of bigoted pricks.

[pageup]

“Sexual love … is intended only for a man and woman in marriage, where children can come about naturally,” he said.

So in other words, to hell with the idea of love, it's all about breeding!

[hinoema]

Of course. More workers for the field.