the road to hell

[entelodont]

Comments

[deme_yuca]

I think Tyler Oakley said much of the same without bringing down the entire project as a LOT of people have contributed to it, not just Dan Savage.

[entelodont]

without bringing down the entire project

Good heavens, not the project. It might have its feelings hurt.

He's basically blaming people for being depressed about things out of their control. ("It's hope that will turn them around!") And no, he fails to adequately acknowledge the huge role privilege plays into this. Talk all you like about the future, that needs to be addressed, because the advancement of the privileged does not automatically translate to progress for the oppressed (nor does the advancement of gay rights equal progress for trans right, which is not touched on here but something that many participants seemed to accept without a second thought.)

[deme_yuca]

I absolutely agree with you. I don't think the project is perfect at all and I'm no fan of Dan Savage, but I think that even if one kid out there watches these videos and feels a little better, then good. Like Tyler says, hope is nice and all, but that's not going to help anyone unless people are mobilized on all fronts. Still, kids in high school often can't look beyond it and I'm not going to look down on something that's specifically targeted to them by letting them know that they're not alone in their experience.

[entelodont]

I didn't make this post because I think the project is totally useless, or because I want to be a meanyhead spoilsport. It is, however, and incredibly problematic and privilege-ridden project, and yes, teens pick up on that, especially those teens who know they can't do the things so many participants have emphasized are part of the getting-better process. That needs to be discussed, because those kids (and adults!) are important too, instead of handwaving about how it does some good and thus criticism is unwarranted. So much of the equality movement is bogged down with privilege already.

[lemonsherry]

i just really hate dan savage.

[tacky_tramp]

I don't agree with his analysis of what the project is saying. It's not saying "things magically get better if you just like yourself more." It's saying that when you're an adult, you are more able to be happy despite homophobia and transphobia. Not perfectly able. More able.

I do agree that we need to talk about what conditions make it more and less likely for things to get better, and take responsibility for the unequal allocation of those conditions. A follow-up project along those lines would be awesome. But since this is specifically aimed at reducing the occurrence of LGBT youth suicide, I'm not sure that "It might get better, but it might not, because of overlapping structures of oppression" is a helpful message for that purpose. But I volunteer as a suicide hotline crisis counselor, so my perspective is, keep people alive first and foremost.

[entelodont]

It's saying that when you're an adult, you are more able to be happy despite homophobia and transphobia. Not perfectly able. More able.

It's nice to know depression just automatically diminishes like that. What's the criteria here, "you survived into adulthood, it got better!". Telling someone "it gets better" when their actual reality does not can actually create feelings of inadequacy and failure. We cannot act as if all these kids need is a pat on the head; they're living in hell, in danger in some cases. I cannot go up to queer kids in my hometown and tell them "hey, you're poor and don't speak English and won't go to college or leave this homophobic, conservative town, but it gets better!" That is a damn lie. I can teach coping methods, I can give advice, I can raise awareness and be an activist, but I can't promise shit.

[tacky_tramp]

As someone who has been dealing with clinical depression for 20 years, I don't need to be told how it does and does not work.

[entelodont]

Many of the critiques I have heard have come directly from queer adults who are still struggling with depression and would most certainly not say that they are "more able to be happy" simply because they've aged. That's just not reality for a lot of people, and that cannot be ignored.

[stereoscopes]

I've never read of any Dan Savage's stuff and I don't follow what people say about him. Can someone explain why he's problematic? I'm guessing is that he's white, male, and cis with unexamined privilege?

[tacky_tramp]

Correct. One of his biggest recent fails was buying into the idea that black voters were responsible for Prop 8's passage, and putting "the black community" "on notice" for homophobia. He also says casually misogynistic and transphobic things on a regular basis.

[yasonablack]

Ugh.

[teithiwr]

Oh gosh, he is really awesome and makes a lot of good points.