surprise! it's an intersex issue and nobody is talking about intersex people

[kynn]

Clitoral surgery: FYI and a chill pill
So I've seen a lot of people online getting into an uproar about this Cornell University study by Yang, Felsen, and Poppas called "Nerve Sparing Ventral Clitoroplasty: Analysis of Clitoral Sensitivity and Viability" published in 2007. You can read the paper here.

Dan Savage has posted a harsh rebuttal, as

Comments

[102bb]

Could you add a cut?

[kynn]

sorry, cut added now that i am awake.

[kristallized]

"only 10 of the 51 patients were over the age of 5 and had the sensory tests. The oldest girl having these sensory tests was 24 years old, and therefore must have given informed consent."

oh so i guess all those people who are molested until they go to college gave consent since they weren't kicking and screaming all those years and its therefore okay.
oic

Maybe they should do a study about how having your clitoris handled by a stranger affects you.

[fall_of_sophia]

http://www.isna.org/faq/patient-centered

Surgeries done to make the genitals look “more normal” should not be performed until a child is mature enough to make an informed decision for herself or himself. Before the patient makes a decision, she or he should be introduced to patients who have and have not had the surgery. Once she or he is fully informed, she or he should be provided access to a patient-centered surgeon.

A 24 year old is an adult. This doctor and this clinic doesn't have a good case for credibility and we don't know what happened with this individual person, and if she entirely met an ethical criteria of informed consent to the extent suggested by ISNA and other intersex activists, but it's not really anyone's place to decide for her that she experienced sexual violence.

[ironichipster]

molestation and giving consent to a trained doctor to perform surgery (which i assume if you are 24 year old, you are capable of giving) are very different things. i've had some fairly intrusive vaginal surgery and i would not compare that to molestation. obviously i'm not saying that this wouldn't have been traumatising for people having this surgery who were too young to consent, but having your sexual organs touched by a doctor in surgery that you have consented to have, that you want to have, is not molestation.

[fall_of_sophia]

reposting my comment from hereWow, it takes sexist, racist, transphobic, fatphobic, classist douche Dan Savage posting about it and (arguably mis-)applying the term "Female Genital Mutilation" to get people to pay attention to medical violence against intersex children. The original Dreger/Feder report is mostly focused on the novel and really creepy follow-up use of "vibratory devices" and other forms of stimulation where it's uncertain as to whether it is part of their treatment or for the purposes of research to validate the procedure. Medical violence against intersex children in the form of "normalizing" surgeries and hormones, as well as potentially traumatic follow-up with things like vaginal dilation, is pretty much routine regardless of their actual gender, and honestly this sure seems like a lot of non-intersex cis people horrified at the idea of this happening to people who they would otherwise consider "sex"-typical for being assigned female at birth

[102bb]

I agree with this comment.

[tamerterra]

Ditto.

[cupcakery]

With this study being focused on in the media, I'm wondering if there's been an uptick in the amount of people born with Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia, or other intersex features, or if it's just increased exposure to these cases (features? issues? I'm not exactly sure which phrasing would be correct and don't want to step on any toes).

[fall_of_sophia]

just curious: why do you care? what is the relevance?

[cupcakery]

I was an anthropology major in university; I'm in interested in the role intersex humans play in evolutionary terms, and if there has been an increase in prevalence, what could be causing this shift.

[fall_of_sophia]

sure, intersex and trans people are magical post-human shaman cyborgs and this is very relevant to their immediate survival needs and to stopping violence against them.