Mamzerim and On Ben Peles

[onionsoupmix]

So, when I used to ask the typical question about mamzerim (not fair, why should child be punished for the sins of the parent, etc.), I would most often get a response along the lines of "it's not a punishment, just a spiritual consequence, like a mother who is on crack giving birth to a less than functional child. It's not the child's fault, it's

Comments

[onionsoupmix]

no, we learned that they ran off b/c they saw her brushing her hair.

[antidos]

OMG, Koirach was such a tzaddik !

[hannahsarah]

Out of curiosity, does this law apply to non Jews as well? If so, could a mamzer convert? As for rape, AFAIK the child is only a mamzer if the woman would be halachically forbidden to him anyway, with or without her consent.

[onionsoupmix]

As far as I know, there is no mamzeirus for gentiles as their marriages are not considered valid to begin with. Correct me, anyone, if I'm wrong on this.

About the rape, that's what I meant, the rape of a married woman. A child of a rape of an unmarried woman is not a mamzer.

Thanks for the clarifications.

[hannahsarah]

I'm wondering, because my brother and his girlfriend (non Jewish) are still married to their previous partners, and they don't seem to think that filing for those pesky divorces is a very high priority. In the meantime, GETTING high is a very big priority. They have an 18 month old daughter together, and my mom was wondering if I'd be interested in trying to get custody.

I'm really not so sure how I feel about all that.

[ruchel]

I say, if you have enough energy and all, you would really make a great thing for this little girl to provide a normal environment... maybe your parents can get custody? I hear it's easier for grandparents than siblings...

[antidos]

what don't you understand ? Our HAZA"L ob"m have the power to decide what behavior is immodest and what is not :) So, On ben Peles's wife wouldn't release any bad kelipos into the air because chachamim decided she is a good woman :) So, even if she would sit completely undressed or even wear a skirt with a slit, or her blouse would show her collarbone etc. etc, it would be still OK. But I like the idea of setting up a brothel at the one's front yard :)

[onionsoupmix]

Seriously, if I sunbathe in the nude today, it should be okay, I think, if I do it for the right reasons.

[aunt_becca]

that's tragic. That poor woman.

[ymarkov]

One of your tags mostly answers this question: kabbalah fluff.

[onionsoupmix]

well, I'm guessing you mean that the explanation for the mamzer question is the kabbalah fluff part. If so, go ahead and give us a better answer. Why would God punish the child for the sins of the parent?

[ymarkov]

No, I meant the wife of On and the nonsense about radiating klipot.

Mamzerut is punishment of the parent, intended as a disincentive. God is not averse to making examples of people. Look what He had some prophets do - Hoshea had to marry a zona and be unsure of his children's parentage, Yeshaya had to eat dung in public, etc.

[onionsoupmix]

so you don't take the On medrash literally? Or you do but you don't believe in klippah?

A disincentive for affairs would include an exception for rape or husbands thought to be dead, no?