Visiting the Ohel

[onionsoupmix]

In the latest Neshei Chabad Newsletter, there is an article (pp.12-16) entitled, "The Ohel of a Tzaddik: A Gate to Heaven."

As the title promises, the article discusses why davening at kevarim is an important, time honored tradition. It doesn't stop there, however, but goes on to explain that "we need the tzadik to intercede for us, because the

Comments

[bicrim]

Sounds so similar to Catholics who pray to the saints as intermediaries between them and God.

you might be interested in this post

[glowing_flower]

It's about the pervasiveness of Meshichism in Chabad.

http://haemtza.blogspot.com/

It's currently the top post.

Re: you might be interested in this post

[onionsoupmix]

yeah, I like harry's blog. I should comment on it more. We write about the same things:)

[therollingdice]

So far I talk to Hashem directly and not through any intermediaries and believe it or not Hashem does understand my language in which I talk to Him, which is Yiddish!!!

I know rolling dice, I know

[therollingdice]

imagine, when rambam and rasag spoke to HIM, it was in arabic, HE managed with that too.
I don't think Santa Rebbe could manage with any of that.
No?
Eshkol Hakofer

prayer

[anonymous]

There is a deep tradition in Judaism of asking the righteous to pray for us - as the prayer of a righteous person opens channels that more limited people may not. If the soul of your teacher is indeed present in an accessible fashion it stands to reason that one can ask him or her to pray for oneself.

There are numerous statements in the Tanach and Talmud that bear out this idea of the righteous praying to G-d on behalf of someone- which is not the same as an intermediary -who transmits the prayers to the Deity, as in Christianity

The real issue is not what we feel about a given idea in Judaism but as to how well source in Torah the idea is.

Ultimately the difference between a revelatory religion and a secular ethic is the idea of accepting that which is transmitted once you are satisfied that there has been a transmission.

Re: prayer

[onionsoupmix]

There are numerous statements in the Tanach and Talmud that bear out this idea of the righteous praying to G-d on behalf of someone- which is not the same as an intermediary -who transmits the prayers to the Deity, as in Christianity

The article clearly says that we need the tzaddik to transmit our prayers. This is an intermediary.

mishna

[anonymous]

The Mishna (see for example maseches Midos 2:2) says that tefilos in the Bais Hamikdash were addressed to "He who dwells in this house." Not to the house itself - which would be absurd.

In fairness, you should have mentioned that the Neshei article also quotes the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch that Jews aren't allowed to pray to a tzaddik at his gravesite/ohel but must address their tefillos to Hashem. Then your post would have been about the other contradictions in the article.

Speaking of the Kosel, I think that all (except for the too clever for his own good Yeshivah Bochur) behaved well - the Rabbis for condemning the genaivos daas and the chairum Rabbeinu Gershon of reading someone elses mail and the media for the way they reported the story.

-Heshy

'asking' the deceased taddikim

[anonymous]

"the Neshei article also quotes the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch that Jews aren't allowed to pray to a tzaddik at his gravesite/ohel but must address their tefillos to Hashem."

This entire issue has been explicitly addressed by the great Minchas Elozor a long time ago in a brilliant and very detailed 'teshuvo'! The Minchas Elozor rules that one may indeed ask the deceased tzaddik DIRECTLY to intercede on one's behalf with G-d (not only simply pray to G-d at their grave). In fact, Michas Elozor goes as far as saying that not only is this permissible, but that אפילו מצוה איכא

- cfkaMP

Re: 'asking' the deceased taddikim

[anonymous]

שו"ת מנחת אלעזר סימן ס"ח

Re: 'asking' the deceased taddikim

[onionsoupmix]

CFKAMP, the problem is that in many instances, the "asking of the tzaddik to intercede with God" is shortened to "asking the tzaddik" and Hashem is completely left out of the picture. As you see in the neshei article about Daytona, Hashem was not mentioned. They just asked the rebbe. Maybe it is implied that they asked for a bracha from Hashem, etc, but it doesn't say so and many frum people totally forget the Hashem part. Especially in chabad, where the rebbe is given almost all the kochos of Hashem, with the exception of creation.