Rammstein update: Second member hit with allegations, Lindemann changes lyrics during concerts
Follow up to this post
It's been a while since the last post, so here's an update. Trigger warning: Sexual assault.
Both men deny any of these allegations. Legally, they're innocent until proven guilty.
Cease & desist letter, Gofundme:
Since the last post, Lindemann's lawyer is sending cease and desist letters to journalists writing about the allegations (pls don't sue me, I'm poor) or victims coming forward. A Gofundme was set up by the Amadeu Antonio Foundation (German foundation engaging against far-right-wing parties, racism and antisemitism), supported by multiple German celebrities (which where then attacked by Rammstein supporters on social media for doing so). 70,332 people donated to the Gofundme, resulting in 826,288€ that will go towards the victims and help them pay for lawyers, therapy and much more.
Changed lyrics during concerts:
Meanwhile on Saturday and Sunday, Rammstein performed two shows at the sold out Olympic Stadium in Berlin, where Lindemann changed the lyrics of two songs. On Saturday, during "Angst", instead of "Alle haben Angst vorm schwarzen Mann" ("Everyone is afraid of the Black man"), he sang "Alle haben Angst vor Lindemann" ("Everyone is afraid of Lindemann").
“Alle haben Angst vor Lindemann” pic.twitter.com/hzKrRfx7k2
- grace (@SAGEANDSTEIN) July 16, 2023
On Sunday, during "Ohne Dich", he changed the lyrics from "Und die Vögel singen nicht mehr" ("And the birds sing no more") to "Und die Sänger vögeln nicht mehr" ("And the singers shag no more"). In German, "Vögel" means "bird" and "vögeln" means "to shag/fuck somebody".
„Und die Sänger vögeln nicht mehr … ohne Dich …“ 😂🤘 #Rammstein pic.twitter.com/XObYRGF6VP
- Idiocracy (@katzenlady74) July 17, 2023
(TW) New allegations against another member:
On Monday, new allegations against another member of the band came out. This time, two women accuse Christian "Flake" Lorenz of allegedly sexually assaulting them.
First woman:
The first woman claims that she met Lindemann and Lorenz at an autograph session in December 2002, when she was just 17 years old. After the event she and a few friends went to a bar in Berlin, Lindemann and Flake later joined them. Lindemann allegedly asked her if she wanted to come along to Flake's chalet in Brandenburg (outside of Berlin), without her friends. She told the reporter she joined them because she had a huge crush on Lindemann and felt safe because these two were world famous celebrities. She admitted that she first lied about her age, telling them she was 22, but told them her real age when they arrived at the chalet.
There, Lindemann and Flake allegedly gave her lots of beer and schnapps, and allegedly drank a lot as well. Later, she had the feeling that her mouth had become extremely dry. The walls, as she describes it today, seemed to be closing in on her. At some point, Lindemann disappeared to sleep. She herself, heavily intoxicated, went to bed in another room on the upper floor.
Flake then allegedly laid down next to her. She was not in a state to prevent him from doing so. She was only able to turn away. Flake, as she recalls, then turned her back and (TW) [Spoiler (click to open)]had sex with her. She did not want to have sex, but she also did not say no, did not resist, and simply laid there.
According to her, she "let it happen. I was, like, disconnected from myself." She claims Flake knew she was super drunk because he was there the whole time and could have realized that she was out of her senses. According to the reporter she still suffers from that experience and went to therapy for many years.
The woman has sworn under oath that her statement is true and accurate for court proceedings. Providing false testimony carries the risk of imprisonment. In addition to her, several other individuals have also sworn under oath that she had spoken about her impressions in the days, months, and years following the alleged assault. These individuals include family members, former colleagues, and friends. Furthermore, diary entries, nearly decade-old documents from her therapist, as well as photos from the autograph session, support the woman's account.
Despite the alleged assault, her fascination with Lindemann persisted. That's why they met again in the months following the incident and had a brief consensual affair.
Flake's lawyers denied the allegations, Lindemann's lawyers did not respond to the allegations.
Second woman:
The second woman met Rammstein at a concert in Gera, Germany, in February 1996. She was 22 years old back then. This was before they became famous.
At that time, she accompanied Rammstein to their hotel after the concert and drank and celebrated there with several people, including Lindemann, Flake, and drummer Christoph Schneider, in a hotel pool and later in a hotel room. She then recalls losing consciousness and waking up the next morning naked on the floor. She remembers Flake lying next to her.
She says that her abdomen felt "torn apart" on that morning, quote "I had sex before in my life, and I had sex afterward in my life. I never had such pain before and never after." Her abdomen continued to hurt for many days afterward. She doesn't know exactly what happened that night. She also doesn't know who is responsible for the pain. It could have been anyone.
She recalls that she couldn't get up because she felt so unwell. She could barely make it onto the tram on her way home. She had never experienced a blackout before, except for that evening. She considered going to the police but ultimately didn't because she thought no one would believe her. She later did share her impressions with a close friend and her sister. She, her friend and her sister have sworn under oath to their statements for court purposes.
She remained silent for a long time after the incident, until early March 2020 when Lindemann published the poem "Wenn Du schläfst" (When You Sleep). She couldn't believe Lindemann was publicly writing about the rape of an incapacitated woman. As a result, she drafted a letter to the Kiwi Verlag, the publisher of Lindemann's poetry collection at the time. However, she never sent the letter. The reporters have obtained a PDF of the draft, created in mid-March 2020 according to the metadata.
In April 2020, she wrote to the broadcasting station SWR regarding a review of the poem, expressing her intention to share her experiences. The reporters have obtained the message. The woman never received a response. When contacted, SWR confirms receiving the message and expresses regret for not responding to her.
She also approached the victim support organization Weißer Ring. Weißer Ring confirms that she contacted the organization twice in mid-April 2020 seeking counseling to discuss a suspected sexual assault. The case documentation has been shared by Weißer Ring with the reporters.
Flake's lawyers denied the allegations, Lindemann's lawyers did not respond to the allegations.
If the incidents from 1996 and 2002 occurred as described, they could still be legally relevant for current investigations. However, neither of the two women has filed a formal complaint thus far.
Both men deny any of these allegations. Legally, they're innocent until proven guilty.
sources: betterplace.org, @ SAGEANDSTEIN, @ katzenlady74, t-online.de, tagesschau.de, all German sources summed up and translated by me
It's been a while since the last post, so here's an update. Trigger warning: Sexual assault.
Both men deny any of these allegations. Legally, they're innocent until proven guilty.
Cease & desist letter, Gofundme:
Since the last post, Lindemann's lawyer is sending cease and desist letters to journalists writing about the allegations (pls don't sue me, I'm poor) or victims coming forward. A Gofundme was set up by the Amadeu Antonio Foundation (German foundation engaging against far-right-wing parties, racism and antisemitism), supported by multiple German celebrities (which where then attacked by Rammstein supporters on social media for doing so). 70,332 people donated to the Gofundme, resulting in 826,288€ that will go towards the victims and help them pay for lawyers, therapy and much more.
Changed lyrics during concerts:
Meanwhile on Saturday and Sunday, Rammstein performed two shows at the sold out Olympic Stadium in Berlin, where Lindemann changed the lyrics of two songs. On Saturday, during "Angst", instead of "Alle haben Angst vorm schwarzen Mann" ("Everyone is afraid of the Black man"), he sang "Alle haben Angst vor Lindemann" ("Everyone is afraid of Lindemann").
“Alle haben Angst vor Lindemann” pic.twitter.com/hzKrRfx7k2
- grace (@SAGEANDSTEIN) July 16, 2023
On Sunday, during "Ohne Dich", he changed the lyrics from "Und die Vögel singen nicht mehr" ("And the birds sing no more") to "Und die Sänger vögeln nicht mehr" ("And the singers shag no more"). In German, "Vögel" means "bird" and "vögeln" means "to shag/fuck somebody".
„Und die Sänger vögeln nicht mehr … ohne Dich …“ 😂🤘 #Rammstein pic.twitter.com/XObYRGF6VP
- Idiocracy (@katzenlady74) July 17, 2023
(TW) New allegations against another member:
On Monday, new allegations against another member of the band came out. This time, two women accuse Christian "Flake" Lorenz of allegedly sexually assaulting them.
First woman:
The first woman claims that she met Lindemann and Lorenz at an autograph session in December 2002, when she was just 17 years old. After the event she and a few friends went to a bar in Berlin, Lindemann and Flake later joined them. Lindemann allegedly asked her if she wanted to come along to Flake's chalet in Brandenburg (outside of Berlin), without her friends. She told the reporter she joined them because she had a huge crush on Lindemann and felt safe because these two were world famous celebrities. She admitted that she first lied about her age, telling them she was 22, but told them her real age when they arrived at the chalet.
There, Lindemann and Flake allegedly gave her lots of beer and schnapps, and allegedly drank a lot as well. Later, she had the feeling that her mouth had become extremely dry. The walls, as she describes it today, seemed to be closing in on her. At some point, Lindemann disappeared to sleep. She herself, heavily intoxicated, went to bed in another room on the upper floor.
Flake then allegedly laid down next to her. She was not in a state to prevent him from doing so. She was only able to turn away. Flake, as she recalls, then turned her back and (TW) [Spoiler (click to open)]had sex with her. She did not want to have sex, but she also did not say no, did not resist, and simply laid there.
According to her, she "let it happen. I was, like, disconnected from myself." She claims Flake knew she was super drunk because he was there the whole time and could have realized that she was out of her senses. According to the reporter she still suffers from that experience and went to therapy for many years.
The woman has sworn under oath that her statement is true and accurate for court proceedings. Providing false testimony carries the risk of imprisonment. In addition to her, several other individuals have also sworn under oath that she had spoken about her impressions in the days, months, and years following the alleged assault. These individuals include family members, former colleagues, and friends. Furthermore, diary entries, nearly decade-old documents from her therapist, as well as photos from the autograph session, support the woman's account.
Despite the alleged assault, her fascination with Lindemann persisted. That's why they met again in the months following the incident and had a brief consensual affair.
Flake's lawyers denied the allegations, Lindemann's lawyers did not respond to the allegations.
Second woman:
The second woman met Rammstein at a concert in Gera, Germany, in February 1996. She was 22 years old back then. This was before they became famous.
At that time, she accompanied Rammstein to their hotel after the concert and drank and celebrated there with several people, including Lindemann, Flake, and drummer Christoph Schneider, in a hotel pool and later in a hotel room. She then recalls losing consciousness and waking up the next morning naked on the floor. She remembers Flake lying next to her.
She says that her abdomen felt "torn apart" on that morning, quote "I had sex before in my life, and I had sex afterward in my life. I never had such pain before and never after." Her abdomen continued to hurt for many days afterward. She doesn't know exactly what happened that night. She also doesn't know who is responsible for the pain. It could have been anyone.
She recalls that she couldn't get up because she felt so unwell. She could barely make it onto the tram on her way home. She had never experienced a blackout before, except for that evening. She considered going to the police but ultimately didn't because she thought no one would believe her. She later did share her impressions with a close friend and her sister. She, her friend and her sister have sworn under oath to their statements for court purposes.
She remained silent for a long time after the incident, until early March 2020 when Lindemann published the poem "Wenn Du schläfst" (When You Sleep). She couldn't believe Lindemann was publicly writing about the rape of an incapacitated woman. As a result, she drafted a letter to the Kiwi Verlag, the publisher of Lindemann's poetry collection at the time. However, she never sent the letter. The reporters have obtained a PDF of the draft, created in mid-March 2020 according to the metadata.
In April 2020, she wrote to the broadcasting station SWR regarding a review of the poem, expressing her intention to share her experiences. The reporters have obtained the message. The woman never received a response. When contacted, SWR confirms receiving the message and expresses regret for not responding to her.
She also approached the victim support organization Weißer Ring. Weißer Ring confirms that she contacted the organization twice in mid-April 2020 seeking counseling to discuss a suspected sexual assault. The case documentation has been shared by Weißer Ring with the reporters.
Flake's lawyers denied the allegations, Lindemann's lawyers did not respond to the allegations.
If the incidents from 1996 and 2002 occurred as described, they could still be legally relevant for current investigations. However, neither of the two women has filed a formal complaint thus far.
Both men deny any of these allegations. Legally, they're innocent until proven guilty.
sources: betterplace.org, @ SAGEANDSTEIN, @ katzenlady74, t-online.de, tagesschau.de, all German sources summed up and translated by me