(Untitled)

[nostalgia_lj]

This is many of my problems with Holmes!Who. He just... doesn't care about anything, he'll change and alter characters and relationships to fit that week's "homage" and there just isn't much political meat on them bones. Also? Kind of racist at times.

Comments

[viomisehunt]

The racism in Holmes and Who was not as this author said: "covert" which would suggest "hidden" or "coded". It was overt, as overtly racist as the Black and White Minstral Show which aired in the UK until the seventies. People will comment that no one was offended but: On 18 May 1967, the Campaign Against Racial Discrimination delivered a petition to the BBC signed by both black and white people, which requested that the programme be taken off television. Despite the controversy, the programme continued until 1 July 1978. I can't find the exact wording right now (Maybe hidden as one of the principals of the show recently passed away) but it was more or less that the BBC execs sympathized that Black Britons found it insensitive, but as the majority of white viewers did enjoy it, if the Black people knew what was good for them they should choose to quiet

[nostalgia_lj]

The racism in Holmes and Who was not as this author said: "covert" which would suggest "hidden" or "coded". It was overt, as overtly racist as the Black and White Minstral Show which aired in the UK until the seventies.

I wonder if it is because the reviewer is American writing about British telly and so unfamiliar with our ways?

In WhoI don't think racism comes up as a conversation until Seven and Ace.

The earliest example I can think of is Remembrance of the Daleks :(

[viomisehunt]

I wonder if it is because the reviewer is American writing about British telly and so unfamiliar with our ways? When it comes to overt racism I don't think the culture matters. The protest of the British Black and White Minstrel Show came from Black and White Britons.
I think it is more a matter of simply not being famliar with what is an insenstive or unfair portrayal because one does not belong to that group.
I don't think anyone Asian had to be told that the portrayal was racist, but they experienced backlash when they called the show on it. There have been conversations among Science Fiction fans about the lack of sensitivity towards characters like Martha, or Gwen, or Tara. The insensivity amounts to statements like those were the times, when we see the characters experience abuse, or spiritual or emotional insensitivity from principal character. That kind of response--well we didn't mean it to offensive so you are just over sensitive- is more covert type of racism.

[snowspinner]

The author here, following a link back from his referral logs.

The overt/covert distinction is not my own. The difference between covert and overt racism is less one of coding and more one of apparent intent and visibility. Overt racism is unambiguously discrimination based on race - I hate you because you are X. Covert racism, on the other hand, is racism in which the discrimination has some sort of lampshade on it - "Oh, we're just playing with the old Fu Manchu stories," for instance - or that has no obvious agent - e.g. systemic wage disparity. Talons doesn't seem to me to be a deliberate piece of anti-Chinese propaganda. It just seems to me to be utterly insensitive and careless in what tropes from Victorian literature it borrows.

[drho]

I don't agree with everything, but it's interesting essay. Thanks for the link.

It's strange to see the side of fandom where yellowface is apparently not obviously racist. I'll be over here, with the ever-invisible Filipinos.

[nostalgia_lj]

I've had the argument with someone else over whether it's Part Of A Parody and it sort of stuns me that that is considered some sort of a pass.

[pbristow]

Nos', may I link to this discussion? I don't want to accidentally trigger an invasion of torch-bearing villagers intent on cleansing the place of the heathens who dare question Holmes/"Our Entitlement To Have Whatever Form Of Fun We Want Whomever It May Offend (And How Stupid Must They Be To Not Realise We're Only Joking?)" ... but as a huge fan of Robert Holmes myself - and, despite everything, a *bit* of a fan of this story - this post and it's comment threads (so far at least) are the best, calmest and clearest dicussion I've seen yet of one of Who's thornier issues, in language that someone new to the discussion can easily understand (and not get riled by unhelpful digs at their own intelligence or attitudes).

The post you linked to, OTOH, is more suited to an "advanced level" audience in either literary criticism or racial awareness, or preferably both. I'm loving the guy's essays now that I've found 'em, though, especially the one on "The Three Doctors". So thankyou for that! =:o>

[nostalgia_lj]

yah link away but don't send zombies i hate zombies

[snowspinner]

I have no objection to you linking. I just play here. :)