Look, Ma! Meta!

[nos4a2no9]

A while back malnpudl alerted me to a call for a local-to-Toronto fangirl who was willing to appear on an academic panel sponsored by an annual Toronto literary festival. The panel was going to discuss "appropriation art" - writers and visual artists who incorporate copywritten material into their work. The panel organizer felt it was crucial to have some

Comments

[china_shop]

1. I bow to the OTW and declare us transformers, not thieves.

2. Absolutely!

3. At the moment, I tend to think that fanfiction per se is only geeky, whereas porny fanfiction is subversive. I think to transpose "family-friendly" entertainment into salacious stories and erotic reading material is what makes it -- okay, well, maybe not subversive, but at least less than socially acceptable in the mainstream. We are appropriating these characters to our own dubious (wondrous and awesome) ends.

Otherwise, it's no more subversive than RPGs, imo.

/late night thoughts subject to change depending on whim or weather :-)

[nos4a2no9]

Yay! Thank you so much for weighing in - I know a lot of this is old territory for people (particularly folks who've been in slash fandoms for a while) but I think it's good to solicit opinions about what it is we do here. And your changeable reaction was great :-)

I hadn't really thought about the implications of transposing those specific family-friendly elements into a salacious/erotic framework; that act itself is probably worthy of a whole panel. I'm determined not to mention Bibleslash (every time it comes up the discussion goes right off the rails) but, yes. The kind of base texts were using really matters. People have more invested in Harry Potter as a family-friendly product than the Star Trek folks. Hmmmm.

[zabira]

i'm going to bed, and don't have lots to say about this right now, but that's an exciting opportunity for you! and you reminded me of a GREAT post/rant of cesperanza's on these very topics. it is here. i think it will be useful to you, and it has a legal bibliography linked at the end.

GOOD NIGHT, o my nemesis!

&hearts

[nos4a2no9]

Oooh! Thanks for the cesperanza link - it looks very useful! I shall read it today and appropriate it for my nefarious purposes :-)

Have a good sleep, Z! And thank you SO MUCH for your wonderful response to the story. I'm really nervous about it, and hearing reactions like yours has been a huge pleasure.

[nos4a2no9]

Thank you! It's definitely an important point - I can point to the legal scholarship and say, "Um, nope, it's legal", which will definitely help my argument that our work IS transformative. I'm not exactly sure if I should expect a fight on that issue. I guess it's good to be prepared, regardless.

Thanks for weighing in!

[nos4a2no9]

1. I have to agree with you, there. I think that we tend to utilize prexisting elements to draw new conclusions (or create new narratives) just like you said. I like the analogy you draw with scientific work very much - that's an excellent point!

2. Hmmm, interesting. Do you think there is some divide between the artistic designation of being a fanfic author vs. an original fic author?

3. You are totally subversive, E! :-)

I'm very bad at answering those questions. I don't want to have to explain/justify/dissect my participation in fandom. It just is!

I understand that, yes yes. It's my default reaction, and I don't usually participate in this type of meta. But I appreciate your thoughts on this issue, and particularly the ones you offer below (which was very lovely and totally coherent!)

[nos4a2no9]

Fanfic is more about the challenge of "Can I do this? Can I make this work? Can I 'sell' this story to my audience?" It's more about plot.

That's a very interesting way to look at it - I guess the pressure to make your story fit within an preexisting framework is much less intense when writing original fiction. A story in OF only has to make internal sense, whereas with fanfic we're working with a larger set of expectations. Maybe that's why it's less personal? If you feel original fic is the place you go to be more of a storyteller (and less of a writer) it sounds like fanfic is, for you at least, about making your ideas fit in that framework built by and expanded upon by others. It's an interesting way of looking at it!

And I'm really interested in your original fic. If you'd feel comfortable sending me an example of your writing, I'd love to take a look.

this is very much stream-of-consciousness... bear with me and my broken English :)

[exeterlinden]

1. I think that what we are doing as fan writers/vidders/artists is engaging ourselves in someone elses fictional universe, and I'm pretty sure that if I were the person who had created the original material, I would be extremely flattered (even if it was tentacle non-con *g*). We are doing it as a celebration of others' work. On a more economic level I think that producers and networks get a lot of money from fans. We're pretty big spenders, once we're hooked on something :) And we get hooked through fic, as well. I would have never gotten into Due South if it hadn't been for the amazing writers in the fandom community. I liked the show (what I had seen of it), but I wouldn't have bought DVDs and such, if it hadn't been for fanfic. And I have a feeling that that happens a lot. So in those two senses, I feel like we're contributing rather than taking anything away. And so, I can't think of it as stealing

Re: this is very much stream-of-consciousness... bear with me and my broken English :)

[exeterlinden]

BTW, what an amazing opportunity that panel is - sounds like a lot of fun! You have to tell us all about it afterwards :)

Re: this is very much stream-of-consciousness... bear with me and my broken English :)

[j_s_cavalcante]

Those are some beautiful paragraphs. :)

Re: this is very much stream-of-consciousness... bear with me and my broken English :)

[nos4a2no9]

Heh, your stream-of-consciousness is DISGUSTINGLY articulate, sharp and insightful. I wish I could be half as with-it as you are when you just start typing :-)

On a more economic level I think that producers and networks get a lot of money from fans. We're pretty big spenders, once we're hooked on something :) And we get hooked through fic, as well. I would have never gotten into Due South if it hadn't been for the amazing writers in the fandom communityThis is an excellent point. I've been thinking lately that our way of interacting with our media source text at the economic level sort of discourages The Powers That Be from bringing lawsuits against us. We don't exactly do anything that would cut into the profit margins of Alliance Atlantis or the SciFi Channel. Quite the opposite, in fact: we do encourage a lot of interest in rather obscure media properties. I think if our mode of fannish interaction was a bit more aligned with traditionally "male" patterns of interaction (which seem to violate copyright law in more pronounced

[ifreet]

1. I think so? And I think it ought to be, because when all popular culture is too tightly owned by specific people/corporations rather than the populace, it can put a stranglehold on creativity. (What if the Decameron had been under copyright?) See also, Spider Robinson's story Melancholy Elephants.

2. Yes, it is--or at least can be. Actually, I take back the qualification. Some fanworks are 'higher' art than others, but then some books are Dickens and some are Dan Brown. If both count as lit, fanwork counts as art.

3. A wider range of people than I'd ever expected. People who engage with an idea, a world or a character strongly enough to need to do something with it.

[nos4a2no9]

Some fanworks are 'higher' art than others, but then some books are Dickens and some are Dan Brown

Ha! I actually quoted you at the panel last night! I had to answer a question about the "quality" of fanfic writing, and this was my response. :-)

And thanks for weighing in, kiddo!