Wow. Very good. There were some things that I haven't noticed during the boardroom scene (like that at the end, they aren't looking at each other)...or Jack's posture around Ianto (close or open). Pretty interresting. And being a Janto fan, I love it :)
I tend to find my eyes drawn more to what Ianto does in respect to Jack, so this has really opened my eyes up even more about how they are together. Jack really does react and behave differently towards Ianto and has from the start.
The end bit at the Boardroom is one of my fav scenes, purely for the tenderness between the two. Such a lovely moment and a real pity that neither will remember it. If you believe that Jack and he aren't together in this universe that Adam created, then Jack's behaviour and realisation oh how he feels for him is another *thud* moment and a lovely parallel with Gwen realising that she would still fall in love with Rhys. That all three 'couples' end up in the pairings they are in the real world tells us something.
I don't know where I've been, but I'd never considered the possibility that Adam had altered the status between Jack and Ianto. I just assumed that things were pretty much the same, but that Jack was doing the whole distance thing he sometimes does, especially with the memories and flashbacks.
Owen's comment about kissing at work was pretty hilarious, given that it's, you know, Torchwood, but given his present state of mind I thought he was just covering for the fact that it was upsetting him.
I shall be watching next time with this new possibility in mind ... :)
when I saw it the first time, I got the impression that Adam had to remove a memory in order to put himself in. Then there were the little clues of Adam telling Jack that he is the one that Jack confides in and about looking after the team. Adam seemed to step into Ianto's role to me. So Ianto became the butler in truth. All the relationships got flipped and they all ended up the same. Gwen with Rhys, Owen and Tosh with a one sided unrequieted love and Jack with Ianto.
That text above is from fodian (who I mentioned in Part One) who has some brilliant discussion points on their page. I highly recommend a visit to read them all.
I never got the impression that in the Adamverse Jack and Ianto weren't together. I felt that Jack's reaction to Ianto's confession and his refusal to believe the lie detector was because of his feelings for Ianto and his knowledge of his character. He knew that Ianto couldn't possibly be that person and that led him to investigate further. I hadn't considered that things might be different during that scene in the SUV where Ianto asks to go with Jack. He was so plaintive and sad when Jack turned him down that it made me sad but it's interesting to consider that maybe they weren't together and Ianto wants to be.Hmmm
( ... )
You know I think there is meant to be a relationship between them in this 'verse. I know it may be a cheap bit of evidence to use, but even the BBC summary of the episode, ie that Jack's love of Ianto is what reveals the truth, suggests to me that it is there in the writing. However I would agree that the relationship may not be as close, with Adam being the confidant, as you say.
See the hints all say that there isn't one to me. Owen's comment about the kissing during work, the rest of the team talk freely about Tosh and Adam's relationship but no comment is made about Jack and Ianto. They even talk a bit about Gwen and Rhys. So the other relationships are discussed but no mention is made of Jack and Ianto even though things seem to be more out in the open in this universe.
I use the BBC comment too, but like all through season one, Jack did fall in love with Ianto to my mind, but he just didn't know it. Here he is in love with Ianto but he doesn't know it. It's that mirroring again they like to do, just this time they were doing it with the relationships by it being the reflections.
See with what Adam did to Gwen showed me that in order to put himself 'into' memories he had to take something out. He took out Rhys from Gwen without him knowing about it. When he put himself in Jack's and Ianto's memories what did he take out in order to do so?
Oh I can see how people might have thought it initially too. I was in two minds after my first viewing, but once I went over all the stuff in the episode again it became clearer to me that Adam removed their relationship in order to put himself in as the most important person in all their lives.
Comments 24
Nicole
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Pretty interresting. And being a Janto fan, I love it :)
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The end bit at the Boardroom is one of my fav scenes, purely for the tenderness between the two. Such a lovely moment and a real pity that neither will remember it. If you believe that Jack and he aren't together in this universe that Adam created, then Jack's behaviour and realisation oh how he feels for him is another *thud* moment and a lovely parallel with Gwen realising that she would still fall in love with Rhys. That all three 'couples' end up in the pairings they are in the real world tells us something.
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Owen's comment about kissing at work was pretty hilarious, given that it's, you know, Torchwood, but given his present state of mind I thought he was just covering for the fact that it was upsetting him.
I shall be watching next time with this new possibility in mind ... :)
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That text above is from fodian (who I mentioned in Part One) who has some brilliant discussion points on their page. I highly recommend a visit to read them all.
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Fodian's explanation just seemed to right to me and when you compare that they flipped all three relationships, it makes sense.
Enjoy and I've started working on Ianto's pov
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Really enjoying these..
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I use the BBC comment too, but like all through season one, Jack did fall in love with Ianto to my mind, but he just didn't know it. Here he is in love with Ianto but he doesn't know it. It's that mirroring again they like to do, just this time they were doing it with the relationships by it being the reflections.
See with what Adam did to Gwen showed me that in order to put himself 'into' memories he had to take something out. He took out Rhys from Gwen without him knowing about it. When he put himself in Jack's and Ianto's memories what did he take out in order to do so?
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