George R. R. Martin is wrong about Lovecraft

[nihilistic_kid]

In some tilt against the windmill of fan fiction, George R. R. Martin makes the false claim that [H.P. Lovecraft] let so many others play in his sandbox, he essentially lost control of his own creations...[and] Those copyrights are ultimately all that separates an [Edgar Rice Burroughs] from a HPL.Martin is wrong about many other facts in that post

Comments

[nihilistic_kid]

Even the MZB thing may be a bit more complex than that. The fan's version of the story is rather different than the usual MZB one-basically, it boils down to "MZB had a stroke and can't write anymore, but we're encouraging fanfic to harvest the best of it and buy it at cut-rates as work for hire to put under MZB's byline. Cooperate or we shall crush you."

Of course, who knows which version of the story is so. But there is more than one version and thus no reason to accept more commonly told one as unreconstructed fact.

[agrumer]

And here's Mereceds Lackey's take on the matter, as one of MZB's inner circle at the time.

Comparing it to Jean Lamb's version, I see an important point in common: Both agree that Lamb came up with an idea that MZB wanted to use, which contradicts the usual version of the story (repeated by GRRM), which holds that MZB and the fan came up with similar ideas separately.

[pixelfish]

Yes, that's what I had heard as well: simultaneous ideas. (Which seems likely to happen often enough if you're using the same base characters and world.)

It's weird but the "fan came up with the idea" aspect actually makes me think more kindly towards fan-fic in the light of the incident. Because I think the gut reaction that GRRM and other purveyors of that story are counting on is the "I couldn't even use my own ideas" aspect. The sort of cringe that will knock a writer to the gut, as they realise control of their creation has been ripped from their hands. And now that myth has been sorta gently laid on its side.

[nihilistic_kid]

Listen, splitting money with collaborators and ghost-writers is hard. If you were a reeeeeaaal fan, you'd be happy to write me a novel for me to publish under my name with all the money going to me.

[jonquil]

But.... but.... you'd thank me on the front page! A REAL WRITER would thank me!

[nihilistic_kid]

Well, by way of thanks, when you attend Nickronomicon 2011, you can fetch me sodas and the like and do some other errands I have. I don't have any clothes that need drycleaning, but maybe you can buy me some. And then have them drycleaned for me.

[jonquil]

And blowjobs or at least sloppy gropes in the bar at 3AM.

^^^^

[nihilistic_kid]

See America, my blog-fans are so well-trained they make the blowjob jokes for me!

[pixelfish]

Further reading from Nick and Avram's links seems to show that MZB offered acknowledgement in the authorial notes and a flat one-time fee.

But not getting a nibble, I don't understand why MZB didn't scrap that idea and continue the work in progress with another idea. Throwing the whole pile into the dustbin and going, "Mean ol' fan ficcers," seems to be attributing more power to the ficcers than they have.

[nihilistic_kid]

Between the lines-MZB seems have been working with substantially reduced capacity and many of her collaborators were basically doing all her writing for her, but publishing it under her name to keep the MZB system going.

[jonquil]

This happened *before* the novels began to be published with dual bylines?

[nihilistic_kid]

No idea. I'm absolutely rumor-mongering here.

[tavella]

Yup. I think Rediscovery did get a cover credit to Lackey, and Heirs of Hammerfell was very likely a rejected non-Darkover manuscript that was hastily rewritten by her circle in the wake of the stroke, but Exile's Song, etc, in their original editions had only her name on it, and the only reference to the real author, Adrienne Barnes, was a non-specific reference in the acknowledgement.

I'm quite confident that MZB didn't 'throw away a manuscript' in the wake of Jean Lamb's refusal to be drafted as her ghostwriter; she was no longer capable of writing. Possibly Barnes did, but if she had started expanding Lamb's text without getting clearance first, that was her own damn fault.

[nihilistic_kid]

Hey, you seem to know dino_mushers. Who is this? :)