On Mary Sues. Run, hide...

[nightwind69]

So, a couple of entries down, the subject of Mary Sues has come up. This is, admittedly, one of those "button" issues for me. So, I'm no doubt going to catch some heat for expressing my opinion of the issues surrounding Mary Sue here, as I know there are lots of vehement anti-Mary-Sue'ers out there

Comments

[dragoness_e]

Confused, I am. Is this a re-post of something posted elsewhere, because I surely don't know what 'thread' is being referred to..

[nightwind69]

It's this entry, two down in my journal here. Devi brought up the subject of Mary Sues and my mind decided to chew on it, I'm afraid. :) This was the result, for better or worse.

More lengthy reply to follow, but for now....

[ravenclaw_devi]

Why would I feel attacked? *blinks* I believe I was arguing against the "watered-down" usage of the term "Mary Sue" myself.

Well, specifically, I was arguing against the use of that term to describe good OCs or good self-inserts. Because, as you said, a Sue is characterised by how the characters and world around her are bent out of shape to accomodate her. She's Miss The-Rules-Don't-Apply-To-Me.

Re: More lengthy reply to follow, but for now....

[nightwind69]

Well, I though you might feel attacked because I wrote what I wrote sort of in response to what you said. I didn't want you to think that I thought you to be one of these people who wrongly accuse people of writing Sues. So, just making sure you knew that I was speaking in generalities here, not specifically to you.

But I still say that good OCs can still be Sues... Cliches can be done well, but that doesn't make them any less cliche, after all.

[ameban]

I don't remember if it was you or dragoness who talked me about Mary Sues for first time. I knew the characters, but I didn't know actually they have a name.
Anyway, as far I remember, they were born in Star Trek fandom. Aint' right?

As for your post, well... I'm quite agree with you. I don't like "Mary Sues", neither other "lame female characters", but I can see why people need self-insertions in any series.
The fact is I just don't like any made up character, I cannot see the point of making up characters as any series has tons of interesting characters.

Perhaps it's the main reason because mostly of fanfics are just too weak. People uses to write anything trying to fit the canon as they'd like it'd be.

But the use of "Mary Sue" term is being quite abussive. "Cliché" is the correct tern, "Mary Sue" is just a type of "Cliché"

---And I don't think "Da Vinci code" is just an enjoyable novel.

[nightwind69]

To be honest, I'm not wild about made-up characters, either. I find them to be far less interesting to read about than the non-made-up characters. Yet, I still create them and I still write about them on occasion.

I guess it's part of that whole "writing what I'd like to read" thing as opposed to always writing what I think other people will want to read. I like to try to do a little bit of both, personally, but it never surprises me that the stories that focus on the canon characters get far more attention than any that focus on made-up characters. When all is said and done, in the Tranformers universe there are PLENTY of canon characters that need to be explored. There isn't much reason to go and create new ones.

Except, of course, that it's fun to do so. :) If nothing else, it's an easy way to insert oneself into the fictional universe that you love. That, of course, is the appeal for most people. But not, of course, for everyone. :)

[ravenclaw_devi]

I find them to be far less interesting to read about than the non-made-up characters. Yet, I still create them and I still write about them on occasion.

Isn't that a tad bit hypocritical, though? ;) "I don't like OCs, but when I write OCs and self-inserts, it's different."

Not that we don't all have a bit of that kind of hypocrisy in us - it just is much more easy to find one's own OCs interesting (after all, we created them because we felt the desire to do so) than to find someone else's OCs interesting. Unless those "other people's OCs" push all one's right buttons, that is. ;) ($DEITY knows my headspace is Waywardchara Central...)

[nightwind69]

Isn't that a tad bit hypocritical, though? ;) "I don't like OCs, but when I write OCs and self-inserts, it's different."

Hypocritical? No, I don't think so. I'm just acknowledging that I, like probably most people, prefer to read stories focusing on canon characters, not original characters. I like my OCs, sure, because they're mine and therefore inherently interesting to me. That doesn't mean that I think they're somehow "better" than someone else's OC/self-insert because, in general, they aren't. It just means that I like them; I don't really expect anyone else to do so.

Which, in the end, is why most of what I write isn't OC-focused. And when I do write an OC story, it's a case of me writing what I'd like to read, as opposed to writing something that I believe other people might enjoy just as much as I do. Like I said, I have done a bit of both, but I "publish" OC stories far less often that I will publish non-OC stories because I believe that other people won't enjoy them nearly so much as I do. So why bother sharing it, you

re:

[silverrose14]

I confess that as much as I totally wanted to do a self insert character or at least a character with the same nick that I use on TF forums, I was apprehensive about doing so because of all the fans out there that like to rip people to shreds over it. It wasn't until just last week that I decided to risk it and write about Silverrose. Actually I ended up writing about her because a few of my DA watchers asked me to write more and expressed interest in my OC's. So I guess I discovered that one person's garbage can might be someone else's treasure chest

Re:

[nightwind69]

I'm glad you've decided what you want to write, cliche or not. :) That warms my heart, it does. And it is indeed true that what one person sees as garbage another person will love. I used to crusade against what I saw as garbage, disregarding other people's opinions. It was, in retrospect, rather hideously selfish and self-important of me. That was the realization that I came to, eventually. Which doesn't mean that I don't enjoy pointing and laughing at stuff that I think is bad. It just means that I don't crusade against it anymore. My mantra is, "It's only fanfic. It's only fanfic. It's only fanfic..." :)

Of course, it IS a good thing to be aware of cliches and to avoid them if you want to. Like I said, though, I've just realized that there are some people -- many people, even -- who enjoy the cliches. Who am I to deny them of that which they enjoy, eh? :)

[ravenclaw_devi]

Here's the long reply. :)