Wow, so (checking Wikipedia), I see that, although set in the 1970s, Tam Lin was written in the very early 1990s. And judging by the author's age, I guess that matches when she, herself, did go to college. That adds an interesting intervening couple of decades of reflection and interpretation that she was able to bring to her story. So you get not only the historical/anthropological record that you mention, but also the author's own judgment about which of those elements proved to be most important.
The context of Tam Lin was one of the first things I looked into, and probably one of the things that made getting into it slow-going--because it felt a little dated. She writes about all these rituals, like writing long letters over the summer and waiting for a phone operator to find the party you want to speak to--that stuff I can't relate to, just because I grew up in the digital era (if I were to set Tam Lin at MY school, it would be about blog updates on free food and hating Frontiers of Science and not having Flex at local supermarkets). That's why I still think it's just one person's point of view, and you have to meet the book at a conversational level in order to appreciate it--and yea, I do think you need some Western canon under your belt before doing so. Because there were SEVERAL times when I disagreed with Janet ;)
I am one of those squarely in the love love love camp. I attended a small liberal arts college in Wisc in the late 70s, read the book when it first came out, and this story rang so true to me.
Plus it introduced me to the Tam Lin ballad, and started me on a quest to read other versions of it. I think my favorites of the others I've found (so far) is the picture book of the actual ballad by Jane Yolen and CHarles Mikolaycak, and the book The Perilous Gard by Pope, but I have another one on my tbr stack which I am looking forward to (can't think of the title right now, though).
I found a lot similarities between my uni experience and Janet's, but probably not as close as yours--I was actually a transfer from the engineering school, so I got to all those core literary/philosophical texts two years late, with a party of freshman, haha.
And thanks for the rec! It is my favourite ballad and I'll definitely want to check those out (as well as The Lady's Not for Burning). Have you read any more of Terri Windling's Fairy tale series?
I actually own this book -- I picked it up at a used bookstore at one point because it sounded interesting. But when I started reading I got through maybe the first quarter or third and skipped to the end because I was pretty much bored. You've just inspired me to give it another try. Maybe after I read some more of those classics, though...
I was definitely having a difficult time keeping interest until about 2/3rds of the way through. As soon as you break out of diary-chapters, things start picking up. Although, I wonder, after knowing the ending, if I will appreciate the first part more on the re-read--because there WAS a decent amount of foreshadowing, it was just buried.
Very, very buried. I describe the book to people as 400 pages of people being at college, and then the ballad plot is crammed into the last 50 or so. It might not be an overstatement to say this is one of the few pieces of literary fiction I like -- because if you whacked that last 50 pages off, you'd pretty much have a slightly off-kilter literary novel about college in the '70s. But the characters and dialogue and so on engage me enough that I'm happy to spend time with them no matter what they're doing.
Oh, please do put this together for Sirens! I'm about halfway through, and I'm one of the people you talked about: I don't have a liberal arts background, Classics or otherwise, and I'm finding the narrative dense, indulgent and show-offy, probably *because* I don't understand it. (Perhaps interestingly for your discussion, I did get the parts about Hamlet and Rosencrantz, and I could see where this was going, since I know the plot of the ballad, and I liked that part much better, but still found the pace a bit plodding. I mean, really, page 210 and not a (known) faery to be seen. :P ) But I bet a lot of this comes together later; right now it's almost like a mystery: Janet knows something's going on, but not what (though I have some foreshadowing, knowing the ballad
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Ok! I'll think about how to revise and what to pull out of it--would this be best as a paper or a discussion? I could look more into the feminism of the early 70s as well, if I wanted to turn it into a paper.
The pace WAS plodding, and it was an extremely laborious read even for someone with some dabbling in the classics!I fully agree, it didn't make for a friendly reading experience. And the resolution might not be worthwhile for everyone, but it was for me.
Female bullying following sexting incidents? (I'm not a huge texter, so am I to assume that sexting means dirty texting? And the female bullies the guy or whomever she's texting? Just wanted to clarify!)
Also, re: male sexuality in YA - bah. For females it's almost like it's a 'liberating' factor--the girl finally ready/wanting to give it up to the boy she's with--while it's assumed that all 'confident' guys are already getting some. And most YA books are about becoming secure of the person you are. Hmm.
If you've got the interest, a paper would be great! So many of our attendees wouldn't know where to begin with a paper, so it's particularly awesome when our attendees with that background put them together
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Sorry for the belated reaction to this--but I was thinking about this some more. The other day, I heard that a fistfight had broken out in the cafeteria of my former high school. It was two girls fighting over a boy. Apparently a girl was going out with a boy, and she apparently found out that the boy had been seeing another girl behind her back. So my question is this--WHY did she blame the other girl for 'stealing her boyfriend away' and attack her? This isn't a definitive incident, obviously. I see all the time that the girlfriend will often blame the other girl, never the cheating boyfriend scum. It takes two to tango. Part of me concludes that the girlfriend wants to win the boy back, but... but... why?
I think, related to your sexting observation, it relates to girls holding other girls to higher standards than they do boys. Maybe it's because girls ought to understand one another, so they're quick to judge and leap to conclusions, while boys remain a mystery.
Oh, thank you for the plug! And no need to apologise, honestly I am feeling quite flattered :) I fully agree with you about how science and literature go together, especially as a former engineering major. When people ask me the reason for the switch, I tell them I'm interested in the same things, but my abilities are better matched in the liberal arts. I read Richard Holmes's The Age of Wonder, which details both literature and science during the Romantic era, and remain even more convinced that they are one and the same--for instance, the stars are inspiration for both poets and astronomers.
A friend of mine read Tam Lin as well, her name is Christina and she majored in biology, and she also bounced really hard off the book (the irony amused me). I told her I was cheering all along for Christina to go off and find her own set of friends.
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I am one of those squarely in the love love love camp. I attended a small liberal arts college in Wisc in the late 70s, read the book when it first came out, and this story rang so true to me.
Plus it introduced me to the Tam Lin ballad, and started me on a quest to read other versions of it. I think my favorites of the others I've found (so far) is the picture book of the actual ballad by Jane Yolen and CHarles Mikolaycak, and the book The Perilous Gard by Pope, but I have another one on my tbr stack which I am looking forward to (can't think of the title right now, though).
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And thanks for the rec! It is my favourite ballad and I'll definitely want to check those out (as well as The Lady's Not for Burning). Have you read any more of Terri Windling's Fairy tale series?
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The pace WAS plodding, and it was an extremely laborious read even for someone with some dabbling in the classics!I fully agree, it didn't make for a friendly reading experience. And the resolution might not be worthwhile for everyone, but it was for me.
Female bullying following sexting incidents? (I'm not a huge texter, so am I to assume that sexting means dirty texting? And the female bullies the guy or whomever she's texting? Just wanted to clarify!)
Also, re: male sexuality in YA - bah. For females it's almost like it's a 'liberating' factor--the girl finally ready/wanting to give it up to the boy she's with--while it's assumed that all 'confident' guys are already getting some. And most YA books are about becoming secure of the person you are. Hmm.
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I think, related to your sexting observation, it relates to girls holding other girls to higher standards than they do boys. Maybe it's because girls ought to understand one another, so they're quick to judge and leap to conclusions, while boys remain a mystery.
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A friend of mine read Tam Lin as well, her name is Christina and she majored in biology, and she also bounced really hard off the book (the irony amused me). I told her I was cheering all along for Christina to go off and find her own set of friends.
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