What an interesting post. I actually conduct the chat posts at spnroundtable and this months (launching in a couple of week's time) will be on religion in Supernatural, and I do hope you come and raise some of these issues there, if you don't mind me saying so and self pimping in this way, because you express some of these issues very well. CAstiel told Dean it was destiny for events to work out this way, but Dean didn't believe that. Now, it might be that no one can change the past, but it doesn't mean Dean can't change his future. It doesn't mean he doesn't have choice over how he acts, as you say, and a God that doesn't act... that is definitely something Dean will question.
Or is God acting Through Castiel? That is what Castiel would argue..
Thank you! It's from "Time is a Lion" by Joe Henry, which was on this incredible Dean fanmix that amerella did -- I don't know if the download link is still live, but just in case, listen here!
Castiel told Dean it was destiny for events to work out this way, but Dean didn't believe that. Now, it might be that no one can change the past, but it doesn't mean Dean can't change his future.
This is so, so, so crucial -- yes! Also, I am suspicious of characters eager to be instruments. (I'm also suspicious of actual time travel: I don't trust Castiel and I'm not 100% convinced he took Dean anywhere but his own head.) And oh wow, how have I not been following spnroundtable? Time to fix (ha, I typed "fic" -- awesome!) that. Thanks for the heads up -- looking forward to the conversations!
But the idea of a supreme being who is, for all intensive purposes, sitting the battle out infuriates him.
Dean, action!man Dean cannot, in my opinion, accept that there's a God and He doesn't act. A God like that is useless to him.
Also, beautiful, beautiful point the one you make about that vacuum - God not actively acting in the matters of humans - that allows for free will to thrive. It's something Dean must realize, too.
did anyone else have their moment of greatest augh at one particular line at the end? Your brother's not looking for you.
Most heartbreaking moment in the entire show. I'm a Sam and Dean girl at heart. I admit.
And I also just realized that I forgot to credit the title you so kindly provided to the relative song. Bad me, I'm going to edit right now.
Dean cannot see God as good when God will not directly help people, and fair enough too. However, I think he's still going to work with Castiel right up to the point that he sees Castiel not helping Sam. Everything Castiel has said about Sam so far can be interpreted as trying to save Sam, and Dean's all on board with that. It can also be interpreted as Castiel trying to stop Sam, but I don't think Dean understands this yet. Sam is good, of course an angel would want to help him (just like Sam was not surprised that an angel would choose Dean, of all people, to rescue from Hell.)
I think he's still going to work with Castiel right up to the point that he sees Castiel not helping Sam.
Absolutely. And I think he would agree that Lucifer walking free isn't the greatest of options, if only because demons want it, and so Castiel's agenda or end goal is probably his -- but I'm with you: if it hurts Sam, Dean will say screw the angel but try to find a third way to accomplish that end without hurting Sam. Which may cause it to fail. I don't know.
I so loved Dean laying it out like that: if there's no God, fine, terrible things happen to good people because it's all just random -- but if there IS a God, where is He when we need Him?
(It's one reason I will always object anytime anyone says that people believe in God because it's a comfort to them. Dude, I believe in God's existence and I do not find that belief especially comforting. For precisely this reason, among others.)
Also? Yes. The line Your brother's not looking for you was so very chilling, and the delivery just made it even more so.
I know this is a question to which I will never get an answer, and should not expect one, because it's private, but I have to wonder what Jensen's thoughts on this mytharc are, since he comes from a fairly religious background and his faith is obviously deeply important to him. It'd be interesting to hear -- maybe in a couple of years, if we ever get lucky and he does something awesome like publish all the photos he takes around the set. :)
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What an interesting post. I actually conduct the chat posts at spnroundtable and this months (launching in a couple of week's time) will be on religion in Supernatural, and I do hope you come and raise some of these issues there, if you don't mind me saying so and self pimping in this way, because you express some of these issues very well. CAstiel told Dean it was destiny for events to work out this way, but Dean didn't believe that. Now, it might be that no one can change the past, but it doesn't mean Dean can't change his future. It doesn't mean he doesn't have choice over how he acts, as you say, and a God that doesn't act... that is definitely something Dean will question.
Or is God acting Through Castiel? That is what Castiel would argue..
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Castiel told Dean it was destiny for events to work out this way, but Dean didn't believe that. Now, it might be that no one can change the past, but it doesn't mean Dean can't change his future.
This is so, so, so crucial -- yes! Also, I am suspicious of characters eager to be instruments. (I'm also suspicious of actual time travel: I don't trust Castiel and I'm not 100% convinced he took Dean anywhere but his own head.) And oh wow, how have I not been following spnroundtable? Time to fix (ha, I typed "fic" -- awesome!) that. Thanks for the heads up -- looking forward to the conversations!
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An interesting theory that Dean stayed in his own head....!
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Dean, action!man Dean cannot, in my opinion, accept that there's a God and He doesn't act. A God like that is useless to him.
Also, beautiful, beautiful point the one you make about that vacuum - God not actively acting in the matters of humans - that allows for free will to thrive. It's something Dean must realize, too.
did anyone else have their moment of greatest augh at one particular line at the end? Your brother's not looking for you.
Most heartbreaking moment in the entire show. I'm a Sam and Dean girl at heart. I admit.
And I also just realized that I forgot to credit the title you so kindly provided to the relative song. Bad me, I'm going to edit right now.
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Absolutely. And I think he would agree that Lucifer walking free isn't the greatest of options, if only because demons want it, and so Castiel's agenda or end goal is probably his -- but I'm with you: if it hurts Sam, Dean will say screw the angel but try to find a third way to accomplish that end without hurting Sam. Which may cause it to fail. I don't know.
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(It's one reason I will always object anytime anyone says that people believe in God because it's a comfort to them. Dude, I believe in God's existence and I do not find that belief especially comforting. For precisely this reason, among others.)
Also? Yes. The line Your brother's not looking for you was so very chilling, and the delivery just made it even more so.
*clings*
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I know this is a question to which I will never get an answer, and should not expect one, because it's private, but I have to wonder what Jensen's thoughts on this mytharc are, since he comes from a fairly religious background and his faith is obviously deeply important to him. It'd be interesting to hear -- maybe in a couple of years, if we ever get lucky and he does something awesome like publish all the photos he takes around the set. :)
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