On the OSBP, I had a reaction, too, that a few people liked but didn't get the coverage of other folks' reactions: http://teal-cuttlefish.livejournal.com/452938.html . I posted other stuff in the same post, and that might have diluted it. I really hoped I would get a metaquote out of that one, too. :^P
I think honestly, I had to post something, but the issue does seem to have died down by the time I got to it, and I doubt I'll follow it up past this point. What did surprise me, reading through it, is the overpowering rage filling many of the responses--how soon it went from "How dare he?" to "KILL!"
That was daunting, I will admit. Because on the surface of it, to me, even though the idea does unnerve, slightly, it doesn't make me homicidally enraged. Now I have to think, am I just being reasonable, or should I be more upset?
Most of my icons are shareable, I give credit in my userpics.
I think that the subset of feminists known as "angry feminists" found something they could ride on and once one found it and posted on it, others swarmed to the fight. The moderate responses often get lost in a discussion like that, because the extreme responses are the ones that are repeated, and shouted so loudly. I'm a feminist, but I actually actively like men, and that puts me in a subset as well. So where I might be willing to cut theferret s little slack, and allow that it might work for a small subset of people, but not a whole con, the angry variety immediately turns it into an oppression issue. I'm not sure that's the way to communicate well on the issue either.
Puritanism and bodily fear are alive and well, and haven't been dead at all since the 12th century.
Oh, and this I gleaned from listening to the posters: it's the project that's open source. Not the boobs, bodies or other body parts.
And I think I'd have a lot more to fear from the "Can I touch your XYZ ... WITH A KNIFE *seethe seethe seethe*" crowd than from the Ferret and his crowd. That's if I feared the psychos with the knives and the hammers at all, rather than considered them to be more of a danger to themselves than to others.
"For hate cannot be overcome by hate. Only through love may hate be overturned. That is a Law Eternal." - Pali Tripitaka Buddhism
"Do What Thou Wilt shall be The Whole of The Law. For Love is The Law -- Love under Will." - Aleister Crowley
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." - Gandhi
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." - Isaac Asimov, from Foundation
I have got to put these up on my user profile page some day ...
Re: Humans, hehnematoddityMay 5 2008, 23:28:26 UTC
You should.
And technically, the project wasn't open source. Technically, if you're going by word meanings, it's public domain, not open source, because open source is a term used for objects and programming, not people.
But I went with what the masses were calling it, so.
I'm still made uncomfortable by the instant rage this suggestion brings forth in some women. And I do grant that some of that is because some women have been abused, and that is why they don't want to be touched, and that fear/rage response is what happens when they confront such ideas.
Maybe I'm growing past some of my issues, but it just makes me uncomfortable, not enraged--though I'll grant, I have an abusive past as well, and honestly, people with such pasts will never treat this is just another idea, to be considered then moved away from. We're always going to make it personal. We can't not.
Comments 8
On the OSBP, I had a reaction, too, that a few people liked but didn't get the coverage of other folks' reactions: http://teal-cuttlefish.livejournal.com/452938.html . I posted other stuff in the same post, and that might have diluted it. I really hoped I would get a metaquote out of that one, too. :^P
Reply
I think honestly, I had to post something, but the issue does seem to have died down by the time I got to it, and I doubt I'll follow it up past this point. What did surprise me, reading through it, is the overpowering rage filling many of the responses--how soon it went from "How dare he?" to "KILL!"
That was daunting, I will admit. Because on the surface of it, to me, even though the idea does unnerve, slightly, it doesn't make me homicidally enraged. Now I have to think, am I just being reasonable, or should I be more upset?
Reply
I think that the subset of feminists known as "angry feminists" found something they could ride on and once one found it and posted on it, others swarmed to the fight. The moderate responses often get lost in a discussion like that, because the extreme responses are the ones that are repeated, and shouted so loudly. I'm a feminist, but I actually actively like men, and that puts me in a subset as well. So where I might be willing to cut theferret s little slack, and allow that it might work for a small subset of people, but not a whole con, the angry variety immediately turns it into an oppression issue. I'm not sure that's the way to communicate well on the issue either.
Reply
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Reply
Oh, and this I gleaned from listening to the posters: it's the project that's open source. Not the boobs, bodies or other body parts.
And I think I'd have a lot more to fear from the "Can I touch your XYZ ... WITH A KNIFE *seethe seethe seethe*" crowd than from the Ferret and his crowd. That's if I feared the psychos with the knives and the hammers at all, rather than considered them to be more of a danger to themselves than to others.
"For hate cannot be overcome by hate. Only through love may hate be overturned. That is a Law Eternal." - Pali Tripitaka Buddhism
"Do What Thou Wilt shall be The Whole of The Law. For Love is The Law -- Love under Will." - Aleister Crowley
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." - Gandhi
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." - Isaac Asimov, from Foundation
I have got to put these up on my user profile page some day ...
Reply
And technically, the project wasn't open source. Technically, if you're going by word meanings, it's public domain, not open source, because open source is a term used for objects and programming, not people.
But I went with what the masses were calling it, so.
I'm still made uncomfortable by the instant rage this suggestion brings forth in some women. And I do grant that some of that is because some women have been abused, and that is why they don't want to be touched, and that fear/rage response is what happens when they confront such ideas.
Maybe I'm growing past some of my issues, but it just makes me uncomfortable, not enraged--though I'll grant, I have an abusive past as well, and honestly, people with such pasts will never treat this is just another idea, to be considered then moved away from. We're always going to make it personal. We can't not.
Reply
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