Goats and horn removal, Safe vs.humane?

[theecksteins]

Ah, I have a dilemma. I'm hoping some of you animal lovers can give me a pep talk. I need a little encouragement to do the right thing, whatever that is.

First off, I'm a suburban homesteader. I'm in the process of trying to become as self-sustaining for food as possible. One of the ways we're doing this is getting a a pair of dwarf goats. Roll call

Comments

[cafeaugeek]

Hello!

I actually recently got a pair of baby Nigerian Dwarf Goats, and we actually just prevented their horns from growing by having a farmer/certified vet take a hot iron to where their horns are. They weren't in any pain and didn't seem to notice a thing, and we won't have any horns to deal with!

And honestly, if you have a child, it's sort of necessary : /

[theecksteins]

Do you know how old the pair were when they were disbudded? This buckling's horns are already nearly an inch long above the skin! I don't think they could be burned out at this point, yikes.

We need to stay in touch to share what we learn about these little guys, because ours are Nigerian Dwarfs, too.

[cafeaugeek]

Hmmmm...I'm not entirely certain what to do in that case, I'm sorry >_<

What I have learned is that they're very playful, almost like puppies. They will whine and cry the moment you take a step away from them, and they love to be cuddled. Their favorite snacks, by far, are oak leaves.

[theecksteins]

OK, did it freak you out when you heard them yell for the first time? It sounds exactly like a person, OMG!

[hippydippymama]

This kind of goat?

Disclaimer: What I know about goats is from going to a friend's farm to oogle her tiny little baby pygmy goats and they couldn't have gored a goldfish. So take this with a large grain of salt.

First off, I wouldn't leave your toddler around the goats, period, because even if it's hornless, a goat kick or stomp hurts too.

How dangerous are the horns? How likely is the goat likely to gore someone, or his herdmates? I mean, I'm just reading the Wiki page here, but the thing isn't even two feet tall, and it says they're gentle.

Also, from what I see online, debudding is best done before they're even two weeks old, while the horn buds are still flexible. Doing it later risks brain swelling and death, apparently?

[bellatragedia]

I don't think she would leave the baby alone with said goat, but goats are lively and smart, and have gotten out of plenty of secure pens my friends have created before, and *that* would be really scary. D:
Also, just simple accidents of brushing up too hard against skin could damage the bay's skin, even if baby goat meant no harm at all.

[theecksteins]

I know Toby won't be a baby forever. He will eventually be a potentially mischevious elementary-school-age kid who might even decide to break in and play with the wether. I can keep them separate now, but I don't think I would even want to keep them separate forever.

[bellatragedia]

Nor would I think that you would want to! Children should play with all kinds of animals :]

And Tobias is a gorgeous name!

[christina6644]

Why don't you just not get goats?

[theecksteins]

We love real dairy products, but we are concerned about the welfare of commercial dairy cows and goats. We want to oversee the production of our own food.

We also feel that goat products are more healthful. The cost in the store, however, is prohibitive. So, we're trying to do it ourselves.

[christina6644]

That is really good you feel that way and are trying to step away from that industry but are your taste buds really worth the hurting of these animals? you could just not have dairy at all?

[f1ymetothemoon]

Guilt trip anyone?

[christina6644]

Okay, you believe god loves them, which means god would not want any harm done to these animals, there for, do no harm to these animals.
If you are scared of that these goats may accidentally of purposely hurt you or your child then it is very simple, do not get goats.
I just think it makes far more sense then to get goats and then alter them from the way that god made them, to only benefit yourself.

I hope this did not come off rude, its just my 2 cents.

[theecksteins]

I believe that humans can modify animals in a way that is beneficial, for example, spaying and neutering pets which would otherwise overpopulate. Perhaps dehorning might be considered in a similar fashion, since the danger is not just to humans-- it is also to other goats in their herd. So, I might think that it could be a benefit to goats, even if humans were completely out of the picture.

Part of my caring for these animals is to try to eliminate dangers which they would normally have to withstand in the wild: hunger, disease, predators, and... the possibility of injuring or being injured by horns.

[christina6644]

But god would have made these goats perfectly, just as they were meant to be.

[hippydippymama]

Could you just sell the wether and find another polled goat?

[bellatragedia]

That is good thinking!

[theecksteins]

ESPECIALLY since the offspring of the polled doe is likely to also be polled!

[theecksteins]

Oh, here's an idea. When the doe kids, I could let her keep her kid permanently for company and sell the wether at that point. Ooo. I hope I don't get too attached!