23% VAT, why, oh why?

[natural20]

As the VAT increase lumbers closer I still can't wrap my head around why the government are doing it, or perhaps why the Troika are forcing the government to do it. I find myself presuming that it's just because they are very blinkered (yes, I'm being nice here) and choosing to forget there's a land border an hour up the road from Dublin, over

Comments

[ailbhe]

I think that's what it was when I left in 1998, isn't it? Or was that base rate income tax?

[natural20]

I'm actually not sure, I'd have to check.

[socmot]

It is, I believe. FF reduced VAT during their time in power - one of the ways in which they reduced the tax take.

[socmot]

The reason it's being done is because Ireland has no sovereignty and the Troika want it done. Pure and simple. It's in the memorandum of understanding. The ECB/EU/IMF have officials in every government department, particularly in Finance, and they are the ones holding the chequebook and calling the shots.

The leak to the German parliament yesterday sums it all up - Ireland is not an independent state at present.

I can't say I wanted to go into coalition with FG because I didn't, but from all I have seen, FG with Indos or FF minority support would be worse. I can't say the Labour people actually working for the party are liking this one little bit - they (we / I) are not.

If you want a credible alternative then you'll have to rest your hopes on the Trots or the Shinners, or for a split in Labour.

[natural20]

So, and I'm going to ask some very deliberately devil's advocate questions here, staying in government and breaking a number of election promises because you have no choice is better for the country than not? Or better for the party than not?

If we have no choice in what we do, why would FG/FF be worse?

What are Labour doing in government that makes it worthwhile if all choices are being made elsewhere and your ministers are just doing what they're told?

[socmot]

Staying in government is seen as better for the country

[ramurphy]

I assume you've seen this bit:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1118/1224307766658.html

I agree with you, natural20, that it probably wouldn't make an iota of difference who is in titular power. If we're not a sovereign state, and the Troika is calling the shots, then probably the wise thing to do is learn German. Either that or rise up.

[natural20]

I have seen the bread thing, yeah. It's absolutely ridiculous. Possibly criminal.

[goblin_ballista]

Apparently it didn't just go to Germany.
"IRELAND’S Budget 2012 document was not just mistakenly forwarded to the German Bundestag, it went to all member states on the EU’s Economic and Financial Committee.."
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/budget/leaked-budget-plans-went-to-all-eu-members-sources-2939065.html

I think the 23% is a truely stupid idea and I expect to see queues forming outside Newry and Enniskillen with the Enniskillen ASDA once again having the the highest turn over in the UK.

People are currently terrified to spend money, I honestly think that if they reduced the VAT rate by 1% they would increase the tax take more than they will be increasing it by 2%. Get people spending again.

[socmot]

Just an FYI, Ireland has access to the Greek and Portugese budgets in much the same way as other EU states have access to ours under the conditions of the EU portions of the Troika deal. The difference we don't discuss those in the Dáil before Greece and Portugal have their budget and discuss it in their own parliaments!

[yea_mon]

What are the other options? Would increasing corporation tax a bit be a better alternative (though obviously not enough to make all the big names jump ship).