oh, now she's gone and I'm out with a friend

[musesfool]

Gotham is a mess, but it has seeds of a show I could enjoy - Donal Logue is really good as Harvey Bullock and Jada Pinkett Smith as Fish Mooney grabs my attention and holds it hostage every time she's onscreen. I see people call her OTT or annoying, but I think she's exactly what a lady mob boss on a show set in Gotham City should be

Comments

[vonniek]

also Jim Gordon needs to show some personality soon, because right now he's not very compelling

Yeah. This is a big problem. Right now, he's feeling very Generic Hero. They need to punch him up a bit as a character, and I don't mean with the garden-variety Tortured Good Guy in Corrupt System cliches. I keep comparing it to early season Arrow, and while they share some very similar problems (clunky dialog, dour hero), I don't know why I'm irritated by Gotham's shortcomings while I mostly laughed at Arrow's. Oversized expectations, maybe? Right now, Fish Mooney = season S1 Moira + Diggle + shirtless training scenes and I need more on the plus column than her alone. I'm giving the show a chance, but I see a fair bit of grumbling in my future.

[musesfool]

The immediate difference with Arrow is that I feel like Ollie had a support system, even if he didn't want it, when he came back to Starling. He had Moira and Thea and Walter and Tommy and Laurel, and then Diggle, so even if they were all up to their own shenanigans, they still were there for him if he wanted them to be. And Jim Gordon has a really poorly acted/characterized girlfriend. Not giving him any other relationships leaves him without outlets to show other sides of his personality, or even if he actually has one. I think Arrow had more entertaining things going for it than Gotham does. You get the sense that Ollie *can* do a lot of good in Starling City, but Jim Gordon can only bail water as Gotham sinks

[musesfool]

You know, I get that, though I think the truth of the matter is that Bruce makes that decision directly in the aftermath of his parents' death, and he follows it through with iron determination, because he can't allow himself to do or be anything else, and no amount of care and love as he's growing up is going to help. But I don't think an Alfred who is so...hot-and-cold and *off* is the way to go. (My question has never been, "what kind of caregiver raises Batman?" so much as it is "what kind of caregiver allows Batman to take Robin out at night?" but that's neither here nor there at this point, unless we actually do get young!Bruce in a facsimile Robin outfit - possibly in a Grey Ghost episode or something, if the show lasts that long.) So yeah, while I get what they're thinking to a degree, it's just not working for me atm. (My other question is, where is Leslie Thompkins?)

[delle]

Beyond Franklinstein's monster (which was freaking hilarious), I LOVED when Headless/Abraham started needling Katrina about Ichabod and Abbie's relationship. I loved seeing Katrina's doubt. I really hope they do something interesting with her. (and it was a fantastic nod to the Ichabod/Abbie shippers out there)

[musesfool]

Yeah, it was a nice way to acknowledge the Ichabod/Abbie chemistry without making it too overt or forgetting that he is indeed married to a woman who is still alive. I just hope they don't have her go evil out of jealousy or some dumbass thing like that. I did like that she was able to use the Horseman's own suspicions/jealousy to manipulate him, though.

[tsuki_no_bara]

i facepalmed so hard at franklinstein's monster but i also laughed, so. ten points for punning! also ichabod vs the 21st century is THE BEST. his indignation at the modern world is one of my favoritest thing about him.

katrina still seems only half-formed as a character, tho. and her opting to stay with the horseman was stupid. how does she expect to pass messages to ichabod and abbie, anyway? telepathy?

i liked the new sheriff despite her feeling a bit too much like the standard obstacle placed before our heroes. but it's only her first appearance, so who knows.

i'm mostly liking gotham, altho gordon is kind of boring and i don't actually care about wee!bruce that much - and is alfred kind of a dick, or is that just me? - and everything i know about batman i know from the movies, so i occasionally feel like there's a lot of comic book reference that's going over my head. but it looks so good. and donal logue, i just like being able to see him on my tv each week.

[musesfool]

i facepalmed so hard at franklinstein's monster but i also laughed, so. ten points for punning!

The opportunity was THERE. It HAD to be taken! (alternately, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they came up with Franklinstein's monster first and then wrote an episode to use it. It's the kind of thing I'd do, anyway.)

and I adore Ichabod's rants about the 21st century. I would watch episodes of nothing but that.

katrina still seems only half-formed as a character, tho. and her opting to stay with the horseman was stupid. how does she expect to pass messages to ichabod and abbie, anyway?

Yeah, I don't know what they were thinking. I feel like she's been so separated for so long that they don't know how to bring her back to the main plot thread? But they need to, or at least give her more interesting things to play. Otoh, she does seem pretty good at the lies and secrets thing that spies need to be able to do.

and is alfred kind of a dick, or is that just me? He is! And that's the one thing Alfred should never be! He can take the piss