Comments | musesfool: and hope that i can play a better hand this time

musesfool

and hope that i can play a better hand this time

May 28, 2009 14:59

I am having a brief moment of quiet in the middle of the craziness.

I was thinking about Sam this morning, and I've read some posts about his arc and the boys' relationship in s4 and I guess I see things a little differently? ( vaguely spoilery for all of s4 )

that sam-i-am, oh dean, tv: supernatural: meta, canon analysis, the boy/boy melodrama

Comments 26

sistermagpie May 28 2009, 19:14:18 UTC

I don't see all this stuff about Sam not being movtivated by his love for Dean either. Sure it gets tied up in Sam's own insecurities and thoughts about who he is, but that's how things always work. The catalyst for the whole thing is still loving and losing Dean ( ... )

musesfool May 30 2009, 23:33:52 UTC

Sure it gets tied up in Sam's own insecurities and thoughts about who he is, but that's how things always work. The catalyst for the whole thing is still loving and losing Dean.

There's a lot of weirdness in fandom about how Sam doesn't love Dean as much as Dean loves him, when CLEARLY HE DOES, it's just expressed a little differently, mainly because Sam doesn't (can't) have the same parental-type feelings towards Dean as Dean has towards him.

The only reason Dean can accept Castiel giving him personally any support in certain scenes is because he doesn't see Castiel as flat-out anti-Sam.

Exactly.

celtprincess13 May 28 2009, 19:33:03 UTC

You articulate so well exactly the things that I've thought. What most people seem to be ignoring is, fundamentally, Dean LEFT Sam alone when he went to hell. All of the hooking up with Ruby and the subsequent use and development of his powers are a direct result of that (unwilling) abandonment by the only person Sam could ever truly count on.

musesfool May 30 2009, 23:34:47 UTC

Yeah, I think it's as much a selfish act on Dean's part as a selfless one, and that's reflected by his own response to learning that John did it for him.

counteragent May 28 2009, 21:10:29 UTC

Sam's sacrifice is just a not-dead-yet version of what Dean sacrifices to save Sam in AHBL2 (i.e., Dean loses his soul and starts to become a monster when he goes to hell).TOTALLY! I finally got that was what we were seeing about halfway through the Season. I spent a while during the first half being annoyed that suddenly Sam and Dean's story seemed to be the same (what? Now Dean has a myseterious destiny, too? And Dean's all scared of what's insie him too? Really?), and then I realized that we were essentially watching Sam live out Dean's damnation on Earth, voluntarily. Sam was making his deal in slow motion, bit by bit. And that is TERRIFYING ( ... )

musesfool May 30 2009, 23:36:47 UTC

we were essentially watching Sam live out Dean's damnation on Earth, voluntarily. Sam was making his deal in slow motion, bit by bit. And that is TERRIFYING.

*nod nod*

And he was always doing it for Dean, even if his control issues and his general craziness also played a large role.

Right. The manner in which he undertook the endeavor comes out of his control issues, his arrogance and belief that he knows what's best, and his wish to make something good come out of the demon blood in him, but the underlying reason is completely love for Dean and fear of losing him.

I have faith that next year will not be hunt-the-Sam. I'm hoping it will be build-back-the-boys. I'd even like to see them have a little fun.

God, I hope so.

macbyrne May 28 2009, 21:24:59 UTC

I agree with everything you just said. EVERYTHING. The boys' relationship has deteriorated; they're communication skills are in the toilet (what communication skills?) but they're love for each other is as strong and all-encompassing as it ever was. They only see each other. All of their motivations and reasonings can be boiled down to "Will this save ***? Can I protect ***? Who can help ***?"

I sincerely hope that Kripke centers the last season on the boy's relationship and builds it back up. Otherwise I'm gonna feel cheated as hell.

musesfool May 30 2009, 23:38:05 UTC

They only see each other. All of their motivations and reasonings can be boiled down to "Will this save ***? Can I protect ***? Who can help ***?"

Exactly.

I sincerely hope that Kripke centers the last season on the boy's relationship and builds it back up. Otherwise I'm gonna feel cheated as hell.

Narratively it makes sense, so let's hope he does it.

louiselux May 28 2009, 21:33:33 UTC

I think you have it spot on, and tbh I can't see how their relationship has been sidelined or downgraded. Rather, obstacles have been placed in its way and have made the whole thing more intense and epic. Also, yes. From my pov Sam and Dean's love for each other is the driving factor behind everything that's happened.

musesfool May 30 2009, 23:39:36 UTC

Rather, obstacles have been placed in its way and have made the whole thing more intense and epic.

Heh. Yes. I mean, it's hard to watch them butt heads and be on different sides on so serious an issue, but I never thought they didn't still love each other more than anything ever. they just couldn't get on board with each other's plans to deal with everything.