Let's Hear it For the Boys

[mouradar]

When I was about six years old and in Mrs. Manner’s first grade class, they brought in a special speaker one day to tell us about this program called “Take Your Daughter to Work Day.”  I can’t remember the way she looked or sounded, but her smug attitude is still something I keenly recall twenty-one years later.  It was explained to us that the

Comments

[satunian]

We’ve taken this odd either or approach to gender issues where we’ve been focusing on one gender over the other.  Wouldn’t giving young boys and girls the same amount of attention and the same number of opportunities be the more equitable choice?
This sums it up perfectly. I also think it would help with the "us vs. them" mentality BOTH sexes have. The rise of feminism spawned a lot of anti-male sentiments in women, and even though women have been treated with disdain as second-class citizens throughout history, the anti-man sentiment helped create a huge backlash of hatred for females in men. It's so disappointing on both sides. I hate hearing men bash women. I hate hearing women bash men. I think you hit the nail on the head that the fight for equality has morphed into a fight for dominance, in a grade school "I'm better than youuuuuu" kind of way.

[superquail]

Dude, I don't think "the rise of feminism" spawned a lot of anti-male sentiments in women, I think those anti-male sentiments have been there for a long time. I don't think those happy, smiling peasant women who were getting beaten by their husbands thought that all men were just a wonderful, adorable little bundle of cuddles. Furthermore, I don't think that this "huge backlash of hatred for females in men" is a product of feminism. Men who treated women like dirt in previous eras didn't love them anymore than men do today. My belief is that you cannot have genuine love without respect, and my experience with men of my generation is that they have a genuine respect for women, even if they don't always see eye-to-eye on gender issues (or other issues). I have not observed this generalized hatred for women from men. There are misogynists out there, but the few I've met mostly hate women because women won't fuck them, not because those women are getting good grades and good jobs.

[satunian]

I have not observed this generalized hatred for women from men.
Oh. Well, I have. That's probably why we disagree. I've just seen and heard anti-opposite sex sentiments from so many peers and colleagues, it really pisses me off because I just want to get along, but I'm always hearing "men are such assholes" or "Women are such bitches" when that really not fair because there are a lot of people who are actually decent, but there's just so many others who want to blame the "other" for this reason or that. But as you said, you've not encountered this, so I don't know what else to say except we run into very different kinds of people.

[superquail]

That is too bad. It's pretty miserable to be around people who are always hating.

[fellmama]

I had a whoooooooole long comment typed out here, carefully explaining the differences between radical separatist second-wave feminism and au currant third-wave feminism.

And then I was le tired, because fuck it. If you want to go ahead and believe that men are disadvantaged and women are Running the Whole Show, you go ahead and do that.

I would, however, like to pose the following question: if we're going to admit college students based on true merit, intelligence, and drive . . . why are we even admitting men, anyway (if your supposition is true)? Shouldn't we be admitting the absolute best students and completely ignoring resulting gender ratios?

[superquail]

Don't even get me started about college admission standards! As far as I can tell, the whole thing is a racket, especially in the brand-name schools with big endowments

[fellmama]

All I know is, back when they wouldn't even let women into most colleges, no one was bothered in the least by a 99/1 gender ratio. But now that women are a majority, all of a sudden you have to admit morons to keep that sweet, sweet 49/51. (Not that most men are morons, but . . . you know.)

[superquail]

Dude, do NOT get me started on legacy. That shit has been affirmative action for wealthy white people that's been around forever. Even though there are studies that show that having legacy admission does not increase alumni donations, admissions offices are still pretty thoroughly convinced that it does.

[mouradar]

I'm sorry if my post upset anyone. My main point is that men and women being equal in terms of intelligence/ability, and each group making up respectively half the population, you would expect for them to be equally represented in higher education. This does not mean I think there should be quotas or caps based on gender or any other factor. I just worry that young men aren't being taught that education is important and perhaps that is affecting their life choices. I don't consider that a harmful sentiment.

I'm a little surprised no one had anything to say about my theories on youth based programs for boys.

[superquail]

You're absolutely right about youth programs for boys. It seems that most adults are rather horrified by the idea of spending time with large groups of adolescent boys and are really a little too happy to let someone else take care of it, and thus sometimes aren't asking the right questions, or any questions, of the adults who volunteer for this task

[fellmama]

I'm with SQ--I think you're right on. I'd add that there's this weird thing where we socialize boys to be aggressive and work out their problems physically, and then we decide they are Too! Loud! and Anti! Social! so we send them to camp or wherever so they can get along with other children.

Now that I'm thinking about it, actually, I've never heard it said that a girl should go to camp so she can learn to socialize with other children. It's always so she WILL socialize with other children. Like it's assumed that girls are born knowing how to socialize and those that don't are just being stubborn. (Like, for example, Yours Truly, who was an aloof little shit and hated most other children. Large parts of that stemmed from having absolutely nothing in common with them and not knowing how to communicate.)