(Untitled)

[morganmuffle]

I've been reading the latest posts in the (now)slow-burning SGA race discussion. I don't know who else is still following it but there have been some fascinating posts that have certainly made me at the very least stop and think about what I'm writing and why (and also wish i could coherently talk about the differences between the UK and the US in

Comments

[katie__pillar]

We need to start up freudesheim properly, then these questions can be put there...

[bluebellbicycle]

What is Freudesheim? I looked but there didn't seem to be any entries.

[katie__pillar]

That is because there are none. It's mine and Sarah's idea-that-we-can't-get-off-the-ground. At some point in the future it will be a CS LJ comm.

I thought if I mentioned it here it might give us a kick up the bum to start it.

[morganmuffle]

I wrote the post before going to lunch and was planning on emailing you as soon as I got back saying pretty much "we really need to do this yes"

So, I will try to email you once I've read all these comments and maybe we can actually begin *g*

[kiteyes]

I just can't believe that they research the tactics of the KKK for ideas to deal with the Saints!

[morganmuffle]

I know! Every time I read that it throws me and I know they don't mean tactics like burning crosses and such but it's all I really know about the KKK however much people try to explain it to me!

[morganmuffle]

The feeling I get from Dick and Mollie in India is that outside of an Ayah or servants they (or Mollie anyway) probably don't interact with the natives so much. I guess EBD wouldn't have turned it into a big thing because it would look odd on her characters but I can't help feeling they'd not have reacted brilliantly to having all different races at the school. Or maybe I'm being unfair after all there is a big emphasis on tolerance.

Haven't read Lavender, it's one of the ones I'd love to get hold of but even my pb collection is only about 2/3rds complete.

[donna_k]

I have a pb of Lavender. Well, it's a 2-in-1 with Gay. Remind me when I get back from Rome and I'll dig it out for you.

[bluebellbicycle]

I thought about this today too when reading Rainbow Valley as 'working like a nigger' is a phrase used there too.

[morganmuffle]

It appears a lot in older books and it is very jarring to the modern ear. I suppose you can't assume a character would be racist just because they use it if it was a familiar phrase and yet it doesn't sit comfortably...

[mrs_redboots]

In my childhood, we thought nothing of saying "Eenie, meenie, miney, mo/catch a n***** by his toe/when he hollers let him go/ etc" as a counting-out rhyme.
And "N***** brown" was the actual name of a certain shade of brown, used in fabrics and so on.

We don't say it now as the Black community has asked us not to, and we respect their wishes, but at the time that EBD was writing, this was not realised - there were few Black people resident in the country anyway.

To go back to your original question, if you read "Jean of Storms", the Indian Ayah accompanies the children to England (as though she had nothing better to do - perhaps she hadn't*!), and Jean and her aunt show no race prejudice at all. Class prejudice, possibly, but not race!

* Bearing in mind that being a servant was not always a bad thing - often people had better food and living accommodations than they would have had in other jobs.

[morganmuffle]

Do you know it never occured to me that "catch a tigger by his toe" which is what we used to say probably wasn't the original form of words...

The thing about Ayahs and such is that I can't help wondering the degree to which characters even see them. The class prejudice thing makes it more or less impossible to tell.

I suppose my question is if there was someone in between child-of-royalty and an ayah who was a character of colour how would they react but then again why would they be at the school at all so perhaps it's a stupid question anyway!

[morganmuffle]

That's very true about the faith thing, and really in the period and of that class I'm guessing there wouldn't be a lot of non-christians anyway.

I think I understand editing for that kind of language. After all it is asking quite a lot for a child to understand how a word can be so offensive and yet used by beloved characters. I'm normally an advocate for not changing historical books as it provides a learning experience but sometimes it can just be too offensive or confusing.