Comments | morganlucas41: Thoughts on Cas at the end of S6

morganlucas41

Thoughts on Cas at the end of S6

Mar 12, 2012 14:01

I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about what happens to Castiel at the end of season 6. The conclusion that I’ve come to is, I understand what motivates everyone during that arc. I think there’s wrong on all sides, but that no one person can be solely blamed. And to explain that, it’s necessary to go back to the beginning of S6. There are some ( Read more... )

discussion, supernatural

Comments 44

part 1 because lj hates me sgmajorshipper March 13 2012, 22:50:25 UTC

Or he was ashamed that he made such a huge mistake, and really didn’t know how to fix it.I think this is the most likely scenario. We know in the past he's reacted violently to not having the power, to feeling impotent, to not being the all-powerful angel he was created to be, so it seems likely to me that his pride(essentially) was a large part of him not admitting he was wrong ( ... )

part 2 sgmajorshipper March 13 2012, 22:50:40 UTC

But that it would eventually go bad - isn’t so much of a stretch. Cas always thought he was doing the right thing. To me, his mistakes are perfectly believable.
EXACTLY. Cas has always been a broken character, a thing caught between two worlds with incomplete knowledge of either, unsure of his role or path. It was only a matter of time before he fell. And personally, as painful as it was, I liked it. I have a bit of a kink for tortured good guys who go bad, and Cas' fall was an excellent example of that trope. And best of all, it fit him in a painfully perfect way.

BASICALLY: YES. EXACTLY. S6 wasn't the best, but Castiel's characterization, his motivation, his arc, was amazing, and, arguably, one of the best he's gotten in Show. It's the classic fall from grace, done so differently that we didn't even know it until he was too far gone to be saved. You nailed exactly why I love the end of S6; the desperation of knowing there's no way out of this corner, that people will die and no matter what happens, everyone loses.

Re: part 2 inplayruns March 13 2012, 23:30:24 UTC

It's the classic fall from grace, done so differently that we didn't even know it until he was too far gone to be saved.

This is really well-put.

Re: part 2 morganlucas41 March 14 2012, 04:14:00 UTC

I knew I could count on you to come discuss with me! Yay :)

Pride being Cas's fall - yes. Agree completely. It was why he left Sam's soul and to me, the likeliest explanation for why he didn't tell them he saved Sam. And, you're exactly right on that being his motivation with Crowley, too. It actually explains why his plan backfired so badly and was just such an awful idea in general. He was overly prideful - yet another human attribute, in addition to the free will. This totally fits in with how I see his arc.

Only - I'm not sure he was "effectively rejected by Dean." I think he may have perceived that as being the case, but I'm not at all sure that it really was. Again, I just don't know if Dean would have helped, had Cas asked. I certainly hope he would.

Yes. They lost that connection entirely, and I do think the season as a whole effectively showed that. Even if we didn't quite know what was up for most of the season, we knew that things just weren't right.

it seems like all through S6, Cas tried to reflect a shattered, ( ... )

littlehollyleaf March 14 2012, 14:05:24 UTC

Great thoughts here. Many of them coincide with mine, so it's great to know I'm not alone in my thinking, thanks :)

This, tho:

Cas raising Sam and why he lied about it

This is another big issue that affects the rest of the season. Why did Cas lie about raising Sam?

The answer is, we really don’t know. We can speculate on it, of course, but definitively, we don’t know, and that’s something that has always bothered me.WORD. Everything else I can see the motivation for. I want to slap Bobby and Cas over the head for thinking not telling Dean about Sam was a good idea, but if I squint and turn my head I see their POV. And I get why Cas was keeping quiet about the civil war and Crowley ( ... )

morganlucas41 March 15 2012, 02:03:26 UTC

Thanks! And oh, I know. It's that scene in The Third Man in particular that has always bothered me. WHY lie there ( ... )

littlehollyleaf March 22 2012, 19:53:44 UTC

Yes. Late. But I've been meaning to reply to this for ages so I am going to damn it :p

Even rewatching those episodes and knowing the truth, I don't see a hint of that from Cas. Which makes me think they retconned itYes. Exactly. That's what I keep coming back to. If he was such a TERRIBLE liar in My Heart Will Go On, HOW could he pull off such an amazing deception so early on ( ... )

morganlucas41 March 23 2012, 04:24:13 UTC

Always happy to discuss! Thanks to you, too ( ... )

amberdiceless March 15 2012, 01:38:59 UTC

Just a couple of observations:

Re. not owning up to raising Sam...number one, I think Cas suspected as of 6x03 or sometime soon thereafter that something was wrong with Sam, but didn't know for sure what it was until he checked out his soul (or lack thereof.) This--after perhaps starting out as one of the commenters above suggested, as Cas just wanting to do something cool for the boys without taking the credit--would be why he didn't want to say anything ( ... )

morganlucas41 March 15 2012, 02:24:41 UTC

Yes, this is one of the things that bothers me. I'm not sure when Cas realized that Sam was soulless - was it when he put his hand in to check, in front of Dean, or did he know before that? It's never really made clear.

You make an excellent point about Cas not owning up to his mistakes. I think that now, so much has happened that bringing those events up wouldn't really make a difference. But he never admitted the mistakes even when it would have. So you do make a good point about this being IC for Cas. I also like what you said about why, as an angel, he'd be that way - now that he's with the Winchesters. That also makes perfect sense.

About 513, though - I'm not really sure what would have been different. The way he said that made it seem pretty clear to me that he was lying, and that the boys knew it - and that he was doing so to spare Sam. Moreover, even if Anna had gone back and killed Sam, I feel sure that Lucifer or Michael would just resurrect him - or prevent it from happening at all. I'm with you on the other two ( ... )

(The comment has been removed)

morganlucas41 March 16 2012, 05:01:29 UTC

Thank you! And yes, I agree completely. There's obviously been a lot bothering Dean this season - what hasn't - but yes, it all started with Cas.

I am so, so cautiously optimistic that Cas's return will bring some closure for Dean. I mean, I really HOPE it will, but of course there's no way to be sure!