Well, it is *damn near* over . . .

[mojave_wolf]

Due to the unlikelihood of successful 3rd party campaigns and the sheer horror of the main party options, I continue to cling bitterly to my guns, errr, my !hope! that things can !change! and Hillary merely suspending her campaign and not releasing her pledged delegates means something other than outright capitulation. But she's probably really

Comments

[caliantrias]

The McKinney claim is questionable. Basically, any pro-israel, pro-zionist is likely to call the Greens anti-semitic. The Greens support a separate Palestine and have been vocal in their condemnation of some of Israel's actions. However, being anti-zionist is not the same as being anti-semitic.

[mojave_wolf]

Oh, I don't think she really is anti-semitic. On the other hand, some of the anti-Israel people creep me out as much as some of the more fanatical pro-Israel people do. I certainly oppose the far right Israeli types just as I oppose the far right over here, but the last 15 years or so I've noticed a shift in the left to the point where a lot of people seem to be buying the argument that the Israelis need to pack up and leave.

Whatever you think about the founding of the country, it wasn't done by the people who are there now, for the most part, and it's not their fault, and they have a right to live there in safety. Which isn't to say I agree w/the Israeli government's treatment of the Palistinians, either, or that I don't think some of the West Bank settlers are nutjobs. i.e. the whole thing is complicated. Hopefully McKinney recognizes that.

[caliantrias]

Do you mind if I repost your list of demands on the Obama board? I'm sure some people there can address certain points better than I can and the rest leaves room for real introspection.

LOL!

[mojave_wolf]

Sure. *That* should provoke an interesting reaction. I assume this is a lj Obama board or somesuch? If it's actually going to the campaign I'd throw in some stuff about protecting social security, tax policy, etc

Re: LOL!

[caliantrias]

Here's the link to the post --> http://community.livejournal.com/obama_2008/1206420.html. It also contains my responses to some of your concerns. (I missed one, though, I have to go back and edit quick.)

Re: LOL!

[caliantrias]

Well, damn. It's back to the Greens for me. Only ONE person gave intelligent responses to your concerns. NOBODY got the joke and the rest made asses of themselves. I am embarrassed and ashamed.

[don_fitch]

Some of your requirements for Obama seem unrealistic -- as President, he'd not dare alienate too many Democratic Party Honchos, regarding their handling of the nomination process, lest he fail to get support in Congress to introduce and pass a lot of legislation that's vital, so no, he's probably not going to condemn the DLC for anything. And I can't see him getting Confrontational with Big Businesses in the Energy area -- he must know how powerful their influence on the members of Congress is. But I think he's more wiley than most people realize, and I expect to see a lot of little administrative & interpretive modifications that will (with luck) gradually nudge a lot of things in something close to what I consider the right directions. On much other stuff, I think he's likely to bide his time, and concentrate more on vector-nudging than on Spectacular Total Solutions. On balance, I think he's about as likely to move the Government in a liberal direction as Clinton would have been.

[mojave_wolf]

Oh yeah, I realize I'm holding him to a higher bar than I'm holding anyone else; I'm sort of ticked off at him, the DNC, and his campaign right now. Honestly, I'm almost more ticked off at the DNC and her superdelegate "supporters" who pressured her to quit than I am at him and Axelrod. I see a vote for him as validating their conduct this primary season, and that is one hell of a hurdle to overcome.

Btw, for all that I'm asking far less, I don't think McCain or Barr will adopt the positions I suggested for them, either. Looks like McKinney for me.

That said, I realize he's your guy, I respect your well-considered opinion, and if he wins I hope you are right about him and I'm wrong.

[don_fitch]

Oh, Obama's not really my guy -- he's just the one I have most hope will do a reasonably decent job as President. And I'm aware that much of this hope springs more from what he says than from what he's done in Congress. *sigh*

When we've had similar situations in the past, I've voted for Green or Independent candidates partly because I was pretty sure California would go Democratic, but recently I've come to feel that it's Important that the Popular Vote have as high a Democratic majority as possible, as an unambiguous Statement that, as a Nation, we're rejecting the NeoCons/Reublicans. That's far from the best attitude to take into an election -- I'd much rather vote _for_ someone, enthusiastically -- but it's the main reason I try to encourage people to support Obama. When or if he's elected, I'm not sure we can pressure/persuade him into doing most of the right things, or if, having achieved the pinnacle, he'll grow into the Office & let his Idealism take over (much as Truman did).

[don_fitch]

Oh, yeah... Clinton is definitely out -- at this stage "suspending" a campaign, rather than "ending" it. is the accepted technique for getting a little extra time to collect donations to pay off all the bills & loans. (If the party _does_ nominate Clinton, McCain will be the next President of the United States. Mind you, I'm not 100% sure the Democratic Party Leaders understand this. *shudder*)

Party Unity

[anonymous]

Join PUMA (Party Unity My Ass)

http://blog.pumapac.org/