Today's lesson...

[modehistorique]

Never ask a question you know you're not going to like the answer to. ;)

So, over on my personal journal, I put the following portrait up for discussion:

Comments

[modehistorique]

I'm not ready to give up yet! But I will accept that it isn't what I want it to be if more research proves beyond a doubt that there were no jackets in late 16th century Florence. Not just because everyone says so... ;)

[kdmorin]

Does the portrait reference indicate the name of the sitter? Maybe you can look into her history a bit more? That may shed some light.

[modehistorique]

Unfortunately, it doesn't. Although Santi di Tito was pretty prolific... I'm combing through his portraits trying to find something similar.

[lifeofglamour]

My favorite dress of that time/place is this one, and it's somewhat similar to the yellow one as far as sleeves, fitting and embellishment:
http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/ElenoraToledo5.jpg
That's all I had. :-)
I'm curious to see what you find on your quest, though. Yay research!

[modehistorique]

I love that portrait, too... The problem I have with using it in reference to the yellow outfit is that it is a posthumous portrait of Eleanora, painted about the same time as the yellow, but clearly trying to reference her particular style... Which was 40-some odd years out of date by that point (though the artist did try to update the look a bit). So, I am always debating as to whether or not the Eleanora portrait is really a good representation of what was really being worn during 1580-1600.

That also begs another question: Without more info on the sitter of the yellow outfit portrait, I can't definitively say that the clothes are representational of the time and place she was painted in. Though, I'm inclined to think that this portrait was depicting informal dress. And Moda a Firenze does talk about knitted jackets for informal wear, but the yellow thing isn't knitted... Bleh.

[trystbat]

There's another Italian portrait similar to this, different woman, but similar fitted overgown & full-length. I swear I saw it at the National Gallery in London, but I can't remember the painter so I can't find it on the website. I may have notes @ home tho -- will check later.

[modehistorique]

That's not a whole lot of help! :P

[verdianna]

there are lots of fitted overgowns with sleeves the same as the bodice but they usually have a sleeve with top puffing not plain from the shoulder

[modehistorique]

Do you have links to any of the images? I'd like to see... but yes, the point still remains that the shoulder treatments are nowhere near as simple as the yellow outfit's.

[yzzy]

Another question to ask here is: though this is an Italian portrait is there any reason so assume that the fashion the sitter is wearing is exclusively Florentine? I've seen odd portraits of people in one place wearing the style of another. Might this be from another region, an import?

[modehistorique]

That was something my friend brought up while we were discussing it... It could very well be that this is NOT Florentine fashion we're looking at in the portrait, but without further information on the sitter or why it was painted, it's still inconclusive.