The things I hear - Ayutthaya

[mnfaure]

First a disclaimer: I'm not sharing this to make fun of someone's level in English,* but because I think it could be helpful to the writers on my flist--that would be most of you. :P

So some thoughts on language...

Our hostess at the hotel was driving us to the bus station, and we were complimenting her on the hotel and how charming we found it,

Comments

[jongibbs]

Being English, I have the inherent ability to make myself understood in any language, by simply repeating myself more slowly and a little louder each time.

hehehehe :)

[mnfaure]

*rofl* I've actually met people who must have attended the same academy ! :P

[cathemery]

Another thing to remember is that language reflects culture. In her culture, perhaps compliments are handled differently; perhaps it isn't even polite to give them - that may be extreme, but possible.

Take a culture where group accomplishment is what's desired: giving what we would consider a compliment of "You did a wonderful job" to one person is not a compliment: it's an undesired singling out of a person and may have been bad because the *group* doesn't look good now.

I think this is what you are pointing at when you mention her response to your compliments, so I wanted to put in my 20 cents. :)

Culture

[mnfaure]

Oh absolutely. For me, language and cultural are inseparable. One very much informs the other. I think when you design a language for one of your countries, you really have to take into account what kind of society they have.

[sunflower_sky]

This is very true, and the more intimately you know a language, the more accurately you can imitate the common errors a native speaker makes when speaking a different language

[mnfaure]

Excellent points. Especially concerning how people can get complex sentences right because they've heard them a number of times and still mess up something that is fairly basic.

I'm going to try to ask a Thai person how they perceive compliments. I know that we've complimented several people on different things, and they were quite pleased (or they appeared to be). The reason I think the lady misunderstood us is because we were talking about the decor in the bathroom and the practicality of an open shower. We really liked the paint job (the walls looked cracked and the paint old--you know the effect that is quite popular? In Europe it is, anyhow). Because it is an "aged" look, deliberate though it may be, the lady may have misunderstood Julien when he asked if she had to paint it frequently because of water damage.

In any case, having a culture that deals differently with compliments, criticism, discussions on the weather, etc. is certainly fascinating to contemplate.

[clarentine]

Excellent post!

[mnfaure]

Thank you. :) I only scratched the surface, but those are some basic things that popped in my head as we were driving along.

[clarentine]

I know it's a sore spot with me (::twitch::), but there are reasons that certain things are cliches. Theyhappen.

But then we all know that fiction has to be more real than real life. *g*

[mnfaure]

*nods* Cliches CAN be used to good effect sometimes, especially if you set them and then pull a twist on them.

[learningtoread]

The only thing I can add to this conversation -- and believe me, it's not very useful -- is that when creating the Klingon language, the Powers that Be with Star Trek intentionally left out anything that could be translated "to be." I think it had something to do with the Klingon code of honor and that you either are or you are not -- ("there is no try", to mix my references).

So when they were writing Star Trek VI, which draws heavily from Hamlet and quotes it several times, they were stuck -- because a Klingon had to say, "to be or not to be."

So yeah...

Fantasy languages, grammar, all that jazz. It would be so hard not to write yourself into a corner!

[mnfaure]

Cool, I never knew that about Klingon! The things one learns... :P