Comments | mimicucumber: oh, stuff's happening

mimicucumber

oh, stuff's happening

Dec 10, 2010 13:07

It's slowly dawning on me that the protests at home are serious and things are actually happening. Which is great.

I was talking to mr_clarinet about this and I have to admit I actually can't tell, at all, whether the fees business is actually fair or not. Naturally I jump for joy at criticising the torylibs, especially with such an easy target as this, but ( Read more... )

flist brain trust, food, scotland, uk, politics, cairo, tory wankers, protest

Comments 13

codeinconnu December 10 2010, 16:21:09 UTC

The debate seems to have been framed along the lines of how much it is costing the country and taxpayers and how cutbacks are necessary to reign in the £7 billion a year (before the cuts) that was being spent. But when the sector contributes approx £60 billion a year to the economy above that then the cost can be afforded.

(as an aside - peoples often moan about there being too many students doing 'useless' subjects, how entry requirements are too relaxed and that the participation rate should be cut back, but they never seem to be referring in any way to their own degrees nor their kids path to university!)

There was something in the newspaper about Tunnock's and Egypt a few months ago. Saudi Arabia is one of their biggest overseas markets and the owner of an Egyptian business was visiting there and got a taste for caramel wafers so decided to import about half a million of them!

talkingtocactus December 10 2010, 16:48:21 UTC

i fully agree with that first line :)

mimicucumber December 10 2010, 17:41:26 UTC

I can't believe you answered my question about Tunnocks! You really are a mine of obscure information.

mimicucumber December 10 2010, 17:44:24 UTC

Here we are: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/scotland/article7086740.ece

talkingtocactus December 10 2010, 16:45:48 UTC

it's definitely happening! obviously i'm a london student so i kind of feel like it's REALLY happening, loads of people i know have been marching, one or two have been organisers (or as the mail would say, ringleaders!), people i know fairly well have even made it onto bbc news as spokespeople (and arranged that way, not just vox-popped ( ... )

standard_human December 10 2010, 16:46:00 UTC

I have to agree with you on the tuition-fee hike; things really have gotten quite out of control funding-wise and indeed there are many people who would be best-suited to a non-uni path, to whom a degree in media-studies will provide little to no financial benefit. The change should come from employers and society at large to support and encourage the best use of ones resources - but if it has to come via tory wank-jobs then so be it I guess, just counts them out of the next election...maybe ( ... )

talkingtocactus December 10 2010, 16:51:46 UTC

having said what i said above, i also agree that uni education isn't for all, and that other forms of education should be promoted for those that want them, i think it's a real shame this country has lost our ability to learn a trade, there's a huge shortage of people skilled at the likes of construction, plumbing, carpentry - trades that sometimes get a bad rap but where would we be without them? it'd be great if those kinds of things could be restored to their proper status - as highly skilled trades which are useful to society - and taught to those that are less academic or who don't want to go to uni.

i may be a student and a bookish academic type, but a great many people aren't.

mimicucumber December 10 2010, 20:03:12 UTC

Wow, no way Eve! I totally disagree with you... damn. I definitely think the NHS should be as socialised as possible.

I love you anyway obvs.

standard_human December 12 2010, 10:24:39 UTC

We don't completely disagree - I think ideally it should be completely socialised too... but it probably won't work :(
Like you said though, one would have to have access to the entire budget to really get a clear picture of where the money is going and what is/isn't possible. Right now the level of care is SHIT and my mum would be better off with private healthcare.

mr_clarinet December 10 2010, 18:53:44 UTC

I've been finding it fascinating that because of this debate about the sustainability of the current model (not sustainable, really), people ostensibly of the young, activist Left have now started repeating old Tory canards: "not everyone needs to to to University", "maybe we should cut back on the numbers going", etc. Crikey. Talk about an unholy alliance between Leftist students and heavy-jowled Tory peers. The circle is complete!

I hope the aforementioned young Leftists realise that if we were to adopt their proposals and substantially cut back on the numbers of school-leavers attending University, that they'd be returning us to the days of elitist higher education, when University was the preserve of a relatively small number of privately-educated, upper-middle or middle class families. Because that is what it means. With the best will in the world, it's what would happen.

mimicucumber December 10 2010, 19:45:15 UTC

How about a limited, totally state-funded set of university places that is (genuinely) meritocratic? And a meritocracy that is assessed according to the needs of the programme in question, and not on grammar-school style benchmarks. And that would be the only way to get to university.

Obviously there are a million holes you can pick in this model, it's probably awful, but if it is true that some people (and their societies) are better off working in vocations and apprenticeship style careers, we need a system that organises this by ability and inclination, not by class.

springheel_jack December 11 2010, 01:44:09 UTC

Good luck figuring out what "merit" even looks like.

It's a nice idea that people shouldn't go to college so much and should learn trades, but it ignores two things.

1) an education is an absolute good in itself. It is not a form of job training. Some people are not inclined to certain types of education, but the idea that some people do not need it and should therefore be deprived of it, because they work in particular kinds of jobs, is a hideous and unworthy one. Education is the very foundation of ones potential as an individual. Opposition to its universal provision is not merely anti-humanist, it is anti-human.

2) Just like here, you don't pay 'tradespeople' very well, and instead have opted for a de-facto system of gastarbeiters. Ours are "illegals" from Latin America; yours are from the eastern part of the EU. Not doing this would require you to reorganize your economy. Short of that, forcing people into these jobs on any basis, whether it's a test or by their ability to pay to go to college, viciously re-inscribes ( ... )

springheel_jack December 11 2010, 01:47:01 UTC

Unless you have friends who are still avowedly lib dem after all that has happened - those people only get the drink, because they have proved themselves utterly impervious both to reason and human feeling; they are already cockroaches.