Pairing Meta: The Appeal of Snake/Otacon from a Male Perspective

[outofmysystem87]

Whilst I am still working on my second story (thanks to Khronos_Keeper and Imre_Nico for agreeing to be my beta-buddies), I decided to do something I promised to do for a long time: an essay about Snake/Otacon slash from a male perspective. I managed to write this pretty quickly, so if you need clarification/elaboration/etc, feel free to ask.

Essay

Comments

[thenecromance]

I think you actually have some good points here, and I'm not caring about what others will think about my opinion: I think this is actually a pretty good essay.

It's a little confusing at some parts, but I get the jist of what you're saying here :)

...Though, even sarcastic, I did not like the comment about Raiden, but I'm not gonna hate you for it lol

[outofmysystem87]

I was making the Raiden comment as a joke. I was satirizing the attitudes of fanboys. Believe me, it's not my sentiment, I actually like Raiden!

[thenecromance]

haha No need to get offensive x) That's just me. I was really only kidding.

[outofmysystem87]

OK, no problem. Thanks for your compliment about the essay, by the way.

[childcage]

Recognizing Snake as a hero doesn't mean the player automatically ships Snake/Otacon.

[outofmysystem87]

I never argued that. I argued that there are a great many males that find Snake and Otacon's relationship utterly heartwarming and I proposed a theory to explain why.

[childcage]

As a manly mechasexual myself I find these generalizations a bit disappointing.

[outofmysystem87]

Mechasexual? Would you care to clarify?

And may I add, I never claimed my theory was some sort of 100% perfect explanation for everyone. I simply claimed it has some explanatory power.

[khronos_keeper]

I, too, had a massive crit which I eventually just abandoned.

He's only seeing half the picture.

[khronos_keeper]

The worst part of it is, is that is boils down to a wordy, academic pass of, "Leave Britney alone!!!"

Instead of an essay about character sexuality, it becomes... essentially a defense of video gaming males.

[thatkindofguy]

...So thank you for explaining to me why I dislike Otacon ♥ Anyway, it's a valid theory and to an extent I do agree, but there are mild issues I have with this essay.

Well, this isn't an issue but an interesting note:
First, the MGS series is a niche series. It is not insanely popular amongst huge segments of the general population.
Not "huge segments, no, but I do hear about it on the street more often than other games, with the exception of Halo and Guitar Hero.

These factors lead at least some support to the tentative hypothesis that most male MGS fans are more intelligent than average, and probably enthusiastic hardcore gamers. In short, it is likely that many of them are 'nerds.'...This is quite the generalization. Why are you assuming that they're probably "enthusiastic hardcore gamers"? And why are many of them likely "'nerds'"? Do you have statistics? Have you taken a poll? If you were presenting this in a "oh hey lol this is what I think" way I might not bother asking for more support, but you claim to be asserting

(cont.)

[thatkindofguy]

as does human nature, since women can be just as rational as men
I'm not sure if you realize this because you are a man and may have some unconscious gender bias, but for some reason (and I'm not the only one), this comes across as incredibly insulting to women. It's unfortunate that your gender probably plays a big role in how it comes across since I know what you mean. The execution and implication of it is just...jarring I suppose. Just as, huh? And you secretly long for Apollo to regain his manhood? So you can be seen as equal? You may think, perhaps from being a bisexual, emasculated nerd, that you understand these things, maybe emphasize with women (in general) for not being top dog (traditionally male, and why the hell is that desirable anyway?). But by inherently being born with a penis and raised as such, I really don't think that you do. While incredibly small and minor, that comment was very telling about your attitude towards women (not simply lumped with yourself in the "not masculine" category). But maybe I'm

Re: (cont.)

[outofmysystem87]

Thankyou for your comments, I will address them at length

I have a headache so responses are short ._.

[thatkindofguy]

As for hearing about the games on the street, some of this depends on the crowd you tend to spend your time with.
...What? How does just randomly hearing about a game ON THE STREET (I MEAN THIS LITERALLY, TOO) have to do with what crowd I spend time with?

I am making the judgement that MGS is a hardcore game because its not exactly an accessible kind of game.
Again, what? I am totally not a hardcore gamer. I suck, in fact. But I have been able to successfully complete 2,3,&4. Really, the game isn't hard (except in 2 ajsdfoajsofuckyousemtex).

I am referring to what we might call the postmodern-feminist type, which looks for politics of meaning in basically everything.
...Maybe there's different types of postmodern feminism because the one I know of seeks to transcend the notion of "female" and "woman" since those are male-defined constructs.

As for the comment about "women can be just as rational as men," I am not intending any sexist implications.Just because you didn't intend it doesn't invalidate others' offense to it.

[khronos_keeper]

While I think most of your academic critique is crippled, I still agree with the core premise of your argument. I think it's something that a lot of the women players have caught onto, too.

Although feminism has freed women from these roles, for the most part (in the West, at least), the same freedom has not been granted to men.

This is probably what torques me the most about your essay.

You couldn't be more wrong. Women still catch massive flak for doing things outside their traditional gender roles. I certainly do, and I'm not just talking about a woman who plays games. That's acceptable. More like women in the military or police.

[outofmysystem87]

I fully concede that gender role pressure still exists upon women. I never denied this, I simply claimed that these gender roles for women get questioned much more than those for men. Its LESS unacceptable for women to defy the roles.

As for women in the military and police, some of them do catch flak. I never suggested they don't! I'm simply saying that a female working in the police force may be subjected to less disdain than a male who chooses to be stay at home father.

Additionally, this isn't a fully scholarly, referenced critique. If it were I wouldn't have been able to do it within 2 hours immediately upon waking up.

[khronos_keeper]

No. Learn to watch your wording.

You said that women were freed of these roles. Whatever nuances you actually believe were lost with that one word.

I'm simply saying that a female working in the police force may be subjected to less disdain than a male who chooses to be stay at home father.

Not less, just a different type.

simply claimed that these gender roles for women get questioned much more than those for men.That wasn't there when I looked at it

[outofmysystem87]

Khronos,

Thankyou for your reply. I agree, it seems my writing wasn't sufficiently clear at the time and I apologize for that. I just hope I have been able to clear up any misunderstandings.